sierrareef

Hi. I'm new and enjoying the topics. I struggle with definitions, so I often make up a definition that allows me to wrestle with ideas. Racism versus prejudism is a debate I often get involved in.

So now I've read other's ideas of what an Agnostic is.

I had a discussion with my father earlier this evening and we quibbled over our definitions of words. He said an Athiest "doesn't believe in God". I said I agreed, but I didn't think it represented an Athiest accurately, so I tried to define what I meant.

With respect to Gods and spirituality topics, I find it easier to clump everyone into 3 categories. Two of the categories are believers, one is not.

Believers category #1 are those that believe there is a God, a Supreme Being or some other type of spiritual entity.

Believers Category #2 are those that believe there is no God, Supreme Being or some other type of spiritual entity.

Then there is me, and maybe you. I don't believe there is a God - but I don't believe there is not a God. I only believe in the possibility that God may or may not exist. And unlike some other posts I've read, I don't think I'm waiting for some scientifically derived proof as to which side is correct.

If God exists, I welcome him to prove it to me in such a strong and convincing manner, preferably in a very private and personal way, that I won't be left questioning whether I just received proof of God's existence or just had a psycholigical phenomen that was so very realistic.

Simply put, if God exists, he'll be able to convince me beyond my own doubts. He may not choose to do so, he may be waiting for me to take that "leap of faith", but I doubt I can do so.

But scientific proof - that won't work for me. Heck, I couldn't scientifically tell you why a lamp's bulb turns on when I flick a switch so how could I be expected to understand God's existence as prooved complex, scientific terms? Forget about it!

But I do believe, more often than not, that when I turn that switch on, the light comes on, and I don't need to know the science to believe it the light turned on. I wouldn't even be able to proove the light did turn on. I'm sure some of you could, but I couldn't.

Going forward, I do believe that if God turns a switch on in me, then my light will be turned on and I won't need to have a scientific explanation for my new found belief.

And for gender sensitive readers, please forgive any reference to God as a male - I think it's absurdly human to feel God has a gender or that God versus Goddess topics exist. I use he because I'm more comfortable with that term as opposed to she, he/she or it.

Thank you for listening, and good night

The An-Jel

You have a doubt and from what I read in your intro your trying to fit into wife's ideal. Your trying to find proof of a personal God or you simply like the religious folk want your cake and eat it to? I can understand the need but not the methodology... let me ask you... if lets say like your lightbulb... if a God no matter the gender if there is one... no matter the ideology of this God bad, good, or indifferent... could be proven scientifically or maybe God shows Her/Its/His self before the whole world could you believe then? I ask this because of your devotion to your personal God ideal.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

sierrareef

As stated in the original post, I have no concept on how the existence of God could be proven or disproven. What would the proof be? Mathmatical? Physics? My guess would be that the science behind the proof would be beyond my understadning so my leap of faith would be predicated on what the scientists are telling me.

The An-Jel

Well the idea of a proof would be to allow a person to understand what the proof means. If is presented without defining the terms within say: an equation then it is of no use to anybody. Just like vagueness in a proof which I find in a lot of the Christian ID brawls the religious right have with Evolutionists then it really has no value for anyone. Something like F=ma, Force equals mass of an object times the acceleration. Example a my two ton van is dropped 5000 feet from a cargo plane whose loading bay dropped open. The mass is the van, the acceleration is gravity pulling the van back to the Earth, and that is the resultant force it will make when it finally impacts on the Earth F= m (mass of the van)a (force of gravity pulling on the van). An equation for God has to be explained in a similiar way with everything having to be explained OR the ol' faithful Miracle with God standing there saying: Want to see it again?

It has to be Universal and explainable. If a person wants to find the truth they will have to take the time and open the mind to be able to find it which is essentially the foundation for a site like this.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Gettin' In Tune

(I think I need a new hobby to distract me from the streets )

Anyways, the god you are subscribing to is either anthropomorphic, biblical god or a 'god' that needs to display 'himself' to your human senses.

I dabble in deism, if 'god' exist it is beyond out human comprehension...and maybe someday boil down to a scientific law. Agnosticism is much more than a disregard of revealed religion which you are subsribing to. You are subscribing to a revealed religion in the sense that 'god' has to prove himself to you; 'god' does not...if 'he' exists since 'he' is beyond our human comprehension.

(again I probably need a new hobby or a time out since my patience is wearing thin...and no fault to you).

Your subscription to agnosticism simply because God won't show 'himself' to you is not yet valid. It is more of a rejection of revealed religion than being agnostic. And don't be turn off by words; it takes time, cultivation, and human connection to arrive at your newly found belief/philosophical system.

I mean no offense, but am just stirring friendly discussion and thought