Poll: Where would you place yourself on this spectrum of beliefs? - Page 4

xxkayxx · 03-22-2008, 05:38 AM

I would have to be the number 6 one. Former christians are going to lean more towards theism, and since im a former atheist, i tend to lean more towards not believing there is a deity. Plus, the more im here, the more proof i see that there probably isnt a god, just because religious people have nothing to argue with other than their beliefs, while atheists i think, have more sensible proof

shadowind · 03-22-2008, 08:54 AM

i think you really can't know,
but my expericence and own logic leads me to thinks theres more evidence towards there not being a god.

The Open Mind · 05-19-2008, 09:25 AM

I agree with Armel P (who relied first to the OP). But if I had to define myself, I'd say I am 6, and not only about God but about a lot of things.

I consider people can't be simple "Idon't know"s walking through life. You got to believe in something. But I prefer stay as open minded as possible because we are imperfect observers of reality. If reality is constructed in our heads, we cannot be sure of anything... which doesn't mean we can't live with what I call "working hypotheses": beliefs we consider "plausible" and "workable" in our daily lives, but not the truth written in stone, valid for everyone and everywhere in the universe.

That's my open minded opinion.

Cheers,
The Open Mind.

romansh · 05-19-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Open Mind

I consider people can't be simple "Idon't know"s walking through life. You got to believe in something.

TOM
"I don't know" is a consequence not a stance.

Lanya · 05-20-2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Open Mind

I consider people can't be simple "Idon't know"s walking through life. You got to believe in something.

TOM
"I don't know" is a consequence not a stance.

I'm finding it difficult to understand what you mean. Can you explain more?

romansh · 05-20-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanya

I'm finding it difficult to understand what you mean. Can you explain more?

Hi Lanya
what I am trying to say in my interpretation of what agnosticism is for me (that was a bit longer than I expected)

We have beliefs, theories, laws, hypotheses etc. We gather evidence, and the possible results are:

the belief etc does not fit the evidence and has to be discarded.
the belief has to be modified
the belief etc is still valid

there could be other possible variations

But the the point is I cannot prove the belief (etc). And if cannot prove it, I have difficulty knowing something. (I know there's a circular argument here,

)

So not knowing turns out to be a way of life, it's not from the want of trying or lack of trying.

It's not 'fence sitting', I think I'm trying to say?

Ice_Monkey · 06-01-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DizzyDee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armel P

I have an issue with this type of spectrum (which is similar to the one Dawkins used in the God Delusion). I believe it mischaracterizes the true position of an agnostic.

What, in your opinion, is the "true" position of an agnostic?

I personally do not think there is one "true" position of agnosticism - it has no dogma, no political position. I for one, certainly describe myself as an agnostic, I do not think it can be proven that God exists or does not exist, but I do think there are probabilities, correlating clues as to whether or not there might be a supernatural being and I believe that probability is low in God's favour. From what I've gained from reading this forum, is that agnostics have many positions, beliefs, and opinions. What I love about being agnostic is I can look at the philosophical view points ranging from theism to deism to athiesm, gather wisdom and enlightenment from traditions as well as science and develop a personal "spirituality" which has nothing to do with a belief in God, but has more to do with the pursuit of knowledge and happiness.

My purpose in starting this thread was to see the diversity of agnostic beliefs in the forum. So I invite those who do not see themselves falling into this scale, to tell me why and how they do see themselves as agnostic. I really like Og`s reply - he seems to believe that theists and atheists fall into very small literalists boxes. I believe both theists and atheists have a diversity of opinions and many of them while claiming belief or disbelief in god can also make use of metaphor - I've met them. And I doubt that I was narrowly claim that only agnostics are "enlightened", although I'm inclined to say that Og seems to have attained enlightenment. I've always enjoyed your posts.

It's a refrain from voting altogether (though if pressed, they certainly sound like a 4). Agnostics are asked to deal with what's on the table and refrain from doing so for a variety of reasons. Why, I don't know, but there usually isn't one single reason for the hesitation.

susangail · 06-02-2008, 03:23 AM

I don't fit on this scale

I don't believe in any god(s)/goddess(es) and I don't care if any exist. So, somewhere between 5 and 6 maybe?

I really hate these scales, don't know why I bother.

SavemeJebus · 06-02-2008, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DizzyDee

Accordingly to this scale (quoted from "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins), what do you think the probability that there is a god falls and how does it effect your life?

1. Strong theist. 100 percent probability of the existence of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, "I do not believe, I know."

2. De facto Theist. Very high probability of God but short of 100 per cent. "I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."

3. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 percent probability of God, but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am included to believe in God."

4. Completely impartial agnostic. Believes there is a 50/50 probability that God exists. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.

5. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism.. Lower than a 50 per cent probability but not very low. "I don't know whether God exists but I'm included to be sceptical."

6. De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

7. Strong atheist "I know there is no God, which the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.

Dawkins points out that Atheists do not have faith; and reason alone could not propel one to total conviction that anything definitely does not exist. Hence category 7 is in practice rather emptier than its opposite number, category 1. Dawkins places himself in category 6, leaning towards 7 and says, "I am agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden."

I, myself, would probably put myself in level 5, leaning towards and possibly in the process of learning enough that I could move into category 6.

How about everyone else? Can you fit yourself into this scale somewhere?

according to what you have said i am a De Facto Atheist. and to honest i think most non religious people would be, and also maybe i am not a number 7 because i have a religious past.

loophole · 06-27-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DizzyDee

Accordingly to this scale (quoted from "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins), what do you think the probability that there is a god falls and how does it effect your life?

1. Strong theist. 100 percent probability of the existence of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, "I do not believe, I know."

2. De facto Theist. Very high probability of God but short of 100 per cent. "I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."

3. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 percent probability of God, but not very high. "I am very uncertain, but I am included to believe in God."

4. Completely impartial agnostic. Believes there is a 50/50 probability that God exists. "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.

5. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism.. Lower than a 50 per cent probability but not very low. "I don't know whether God exists but I'm included to be sceptical."

6. De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero. "I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

7. Strong atheist "I know there is no God, which the same conviction as Jung "knows" there is one.

Dawkins points out that Atheists do not have faith; and reason alone could not propel one to total conviction that anything definitely does not exist. Hence category 7 is in practice rather emptier than its opposite number, category 1. Dawkins places himself in category 6, leaning towards 7 and says, "I am agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden."

I, myself, would probably put myself in level 5, leaning towards and possibly in the process of learning enough that I could move into category 6.

How about everyone else? Can you fit yourself into this scale somewhere?

Seems like a useless so called "probability scale" to me. How can you guess the probability not having any idea of what all the possibilities could be? "God" is only one possibilty, and one that is poorly defined at that. It is also the simplest and most understandable one to me. There could be many other possibilities, including some that may be beyond our comprehension. I choose not to take a "wild guess" at the reason for my existence.