jimdene

Was it Groucho Marx or the one with the bulbous nose, quoted as saying "I wouldn't want to belong to any establishment that would have me as a member".
I say "I wouldn't want to belong to a Christian society that would have Bush and Blair as a member. Put me down as an Atheist

lauraclay

There's a million options besides atheism. Have you considered them?
That's the one thing I don't like about the majority Christian society. Not saying you're included in this, but just generally, people seem to assume that anything besides Christianity or atheism is too weak of a force to even be considered.

__________________

The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

dragon1413

It seems I'm always having to redefine what my stance on religion is. First I say I'm an atheist. "But how do you know there's no God?" Good point! Agnostic, that's what I am! "But do you feel there isn't enough evidence or are you waiting to be shown the unkown evidence?" What? I just don't really care! What does it make me then? The funny part is that the rules and definitions thrown around by you all is starting to make me feel like I've 'backed' into an entirely new religion. There is a need in some to belong that has to be satisfied. Some find it through religion, others ballroom dancing. In others though, like me ) I just enjoy living without the burden of acceptance.
I've enjoyed reading through this thread. I'm new to this site and was truly unsure where I stood! Now, I wonder if it's truly worth my sweat.
I fear I'm not nearly as bright as you all! Hahaha... it was fun saying that, I'll try and show my feelings in what I think is a comparable situation: When I drive to work it takes a relatively short amount of time. I follow the car in front of me and all seems well. Some time ago I noticed a side street barely noticeable from the main thouroughway. I take it and find that it's not only shorter, but less traveled as well! Woohoo!! This is perfect! I now take that shortcut with a smile on my face everyday. This Forum and topic has made me feel like I have an obligation to advertise from the top of the tallest mountain that there is a shortcut and you are dumb for not taking it. Why should I care? Everyone else is happy taking the long way... I'm happy with mine.

Am I lazy? Or is there some structured, ruled branch of theology that I need to be aware of and adhere to? I'm joking by the way... (right now my shortcut has no speed limit!!)

Thanks guys!!

JoSh

Skepticologist

I think you may have provided us with a parable, or at last a metaphor, of the search for truth.

Your experimentation in finding a shortcut to work is instructive. You could have made yourself content with "some structured, ruled" route consistent with the conventional wisdom and spent a lot more time than necessary getting from your home to the office. But you were open to other possibilities, and that openness, and the will to check out alternative possibilities, led you to a better answer.

Finding a better way to work, in my opinion, represents the antithesis of laziness. A lazy person wouldn't have had the energy or taken the risk to explore other routes that might well have proven to take longer to follow. It's that kind of laziness that leads too many people to continue blindly accepting a set of religious beliefs because it's convenient to do so, whether that convenience is in the interest of maintaining harmony in a family unit, or simply a lack of energy to break out of the status quo.

The agnostic dilemma involves breaking out of the status quo when it no longer makes sense, only to discover that none of the other conventional systems makes sense either. But making sense is the only viable criterion that an agnostic has to apply to considerations of religion and morality.

I suppose that there are lazy agnostics just like there are lazy religious people. You're absolutely on target when you suspect that agnosticism might boil down to nothing more than a life view devoid of accountability or responsibility. After all, it seems very easy to simply back off and say "I just don't know", since there's simply not sufficient evidence to prove whether there is or is not a supreme being.

But I submit to you that, absent existing evidence to drive a decision to believe one way or the other, saying "I just don't know" is the only honest position to take. What makes it a positon of integrity is a personal drive to consider and vet any evidence that could drive belief in a different direction.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

shadowind

im agonstic leaning towards atheism
the idea of god is just a verifiable as the idea of a unpercievable object behind you. or a gaint toaster floating in space billions of lightyears away. also religion is a good unifier and a good divider. this can have postive results and negitive. however it is to easy for a ruler to persuade his subjects with religion and provides to many hopes and ,releases to too many fears, for the subjects, thus making it easy for them to believe and be controled. god is an idea i would of never come up with on my own. and most metaphysical ideas seem unlikly if they even make sense. also if there is a all knowing all caring god, lets take the christan god, then why would he create me to burn in hell, considering who i am is determained by my enviroment(world, genetics, me, all go into enviroment) people say i have free will, well, i have choices, but thoses choice are almost predetermined, lets say in a situation there are two choices given, a and b, b has a predetermined chance and of me picking it so does a, well most likly im going to pick the one with the highest percentage of me picking it. and if the relgion of my family is correct, then i won't be taken by the void, and i'll be tortured for doing logicaly only what i would do.

blueshoes

I'm new at these forums, but I have found a cool blog about what this guy calls "spiritual agnosticism." He's basically saying that a conscience of your actions on earth counts more than what you believe about the divine. It seems kind of like a "rejection of organized religion" (i think he said something that's more or less like that). Here: www.spiritualagnosticism.blogspot.com/

Olair

Hi everybody , I've recently arrived also . In response to the OP I would say I'm one who thinks the universe is simply beyond understanding . I started thinking about this one day when I noticed my cat likes to watch television ( he particularly likes the nature channel ) . Now of course the cat has no concept of television studios or satellite transmissions or cable tv boxes or anything else that is necessary for the picture to be on the screen , all the cat knows is that the picture exists . It is no fault or detriment on the cats part , its mind is simply not large enough to comprehend it .

It would seem to follow that there would also be things that humans are not aware of simply because the human mind is likewise too small to understand them . What these things might happen to be or how it is that they exist are different topics altogether , hopefully I'll be able to learn more here .

Thanks for reading

SignMeUp

I'v only been an agnostic for a week, my parents don't know that i have turned my back on sikhism.

My dad is the reason why i question my beliefs, so he would be happy for me. But as for my mum, well you can be sure there won't be any sharp objects around when i tell her ;-).

I would say i am the kind of agnostic whom wakes up some days thinking there could be a slight yet improbable chance "God" exists. But wakes up most days thinking there can't be a "God".

I have often wondered how the universe came to the predefined values of for example the charge of an electron (e), or the gravitational constant (g). I wonder what the universe was like if this values were changed slightly.

I watched the program once which actually answered this question.

The idea was that if there was such a thing as a parallel universe then these values could be accepted easily. But if there were no parallel universes, well then that would complicate the matter.

The fact that we can not in any way ever detect paralell universes, makes this a moot point.

Hence i am an agnostic, if any of that made any sense.

marmalade

Do you consider yourself a spiritual agnostic?

If so, what does it mean to you?