Nick Treklis

Truth exists only because there is untruth and vice versa, meaning it's existence is dependent and therefore not inherent. Only the Universe exists inherently and independently so calling it an absolute truth doesn't make any sense.

It's not the statement itself that is absolute, it's what it points to that is absolute.

This like like saying "all socks are white but all of them are black too". It makes no sense what so ever.

A=A
All finite phenomena are causally connected.
All things imaginable and unimagined do not inherently exist.
The All is formless and infinite, it is the creator of all things finite.

A belief has nothing to do with facts, it is entirely based in faith. A belief might be true by coincidence, but for the person holding the belief they are ultimately deluded about the truth of the matter. Only the person who has uncovered the truth through careful reasoning and logic would know if that person's belief was true or false.

shadowind

absoulte truth?
its all relative to the observer,
to use perception to verify the accuracy of perception is a circular argument, reason and logic relie on perception,they make sense of the anomitys in the patterns perceived daily, they also make sense of the patterns, thats all everything is really is patterns, over and over, have you ever experienced a pattern that went against the majority. any ways anything percieved is percieved from a limited reference point at least for me personally, if im ever able to become infinitly small and observe all from all, then i'll be a very confused individuals with a few commonalitys perhaps, maby.

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remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

shadowind

[quote=romansh;26679]"true", its a truth relative to you.
its your interpretation of a percieved pattern of everyday happenings and such,

any one know if the image in the mirror is just a image or if its a reflection, if so how for sure?

there is no 100% certainty

__________________
remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

romansh

to me it does. Perhaps the absolute truth would have been a better description. In that any truths, or untruths, absolute or otherwise, are dependent of the universe. And therefore are not complete ... how can one have an incomplete truth be absolute?

Even what it points to is incomplete.
Not to me.
I don't think these are absolute in that they have boundaries, we have to agree on definitions etc.

OK I believe Newton's laws are a fairly good approximation of matter behaves, in this part of the universe, at the planetary level. In what way am I deluded?

I was wondering did you notice the juxtaposition of two of you quotes?

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Cathy Jean Mockwitz

The image in the mirror...is a reflection of that image. There is nothing confusing about this. A belief that has been proven to be true...becomes a fact. When all of the facts are in...when all of the seals have been opened...and all testimony has been proven to be true...these comprise the fullness of the questions which you have at hand...which is absolute truth.

Cathy

Nick Treklis

Is this statement just an interpretation of a perceived pattern of every day happenings, and therefore not absolutely true?

This is an empirical matter, the logical truths I'm stating are in now way nullified by the fact that what we are seeing is a delusion. I've even stated the Absolute Truth that every thing is essentially a delusion in that it doesn't exist inherently so it doesn't really matter to me whether or not an image is this or that, it simply is what it is, A=A.

Are you 100% certain about this statement?

Whether or not a truth is limited or is bound in some way doesn't mean it isn't absolutely true. Absolute Truth doesn't mean it is infinite like The All is, it means that it is true at every possible time and in all possible worlds we can imagine. Like I've already said, the All is the only thing that is infinite in every aspect, even the truth relies on untruth for its existence.

I agree that they seem to be reasonable assumptions about the way objects behave based on our current understanding of how things work. In relation to this statement you would only be deluded if you believed these assumptions to be absolutely true.

This is disturbing...

You took the statements out of context. Did you notice how I made myself more clear with this statement?: A belief has nothing to do with facts, it is entirely based in faith. A belief might be true by coincidence, but for the person holding the belief they are ultimately deluded about the truth of the matter. Only the person who has uncovered the truth through careful reasoning and logic would know if that person's belief was true or false.

shadowind

im trying to say we're limited in our ablility to tell if something is true, or in accordance with an "outside" reality becuse we're apart of reality, a filter that must be used to experience, we're looking in a "mirror" of reality becuse our cousouness doesn't interact directly with anything, its through our senses we interact, the mirror can distort things. so yea its my perception of a pattern
ok i think i see what you mean,
would it be fair to say that A=what we think A is, even if A isn't really what we think.
pretty close, hopefully one day i'll find a way for my consousness to break free of what its dependent on and what not, become something like the .. almist? god guy in animorphs, anyways i've yet to find something 100% certain, i guess it might be possible, not sure how though.

__________________
remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

shadowind

yea, i guess i should of been more clear, i was using the mirror as an anology of our abilitys,

mirrors reflect light,they can also distort light, we can only look at a mirror, is the shape a distortion of light, or is it a perfectly reflected light, if its distorted, you've been told its reflected, but if all you can do is look, and all you have is the light from the mirror, how can you tell, perhaps im not so good at anologys.

__________________
remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

romansh

A = A only if we agree on a frame work eg car and care the a(s) are not equivalent. So A does not equal A at every possible time and in all possible worlds.
"Not to me" ... I was referring to the analogy. But in a perfectly dark room what colour are the socks, with sodium vapour light what colour are the socks?
OK I too use faith and belief as synonyms. The latter in a more secular sense.
Now I believe the sun will 'come up' tomorrow. It is based on the available evidence pointing to this phenomenon occurring reliably. Our laws of motion and gravity provide us with a predictive tool. I see no substantive evidence otherwise. Other people may put more weight on the unsubstantive evidence and come to what is a strange conclusion based on faith. Eitherway belief and faith are dependent on facts. I think we can prove a belief is false, I'm not sure we can prove it true without gathering more evidence. (eg waiting 18 h in my case).

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Nick Treklis

Do you realize every time you make a statement like this you are doing exactly what you say you can't do? Which would be attempting to state an absolute truth.


No, A=A is the law of identity. Meaning a thing is exactly what it is, and nothing else. Even if it turns out what we were seeing previously as an apple is actually an orange does not undermine A=A. The equation always remains the same, it just means that what was previously apple=apple at one time is now orange=orange. Never does it mean apple=orange or orange=apple.

Based on what I've said so far you should be able to see exactly how it is possible. Unfortunately if you haven't realized it by now it probably wont ever happen. Your consciousness breaking free from the chains of delusion may not be in your karmic nature.