Emotions - Page 18

kellid · 03-31-2008, 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Treklis

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxkayxx

What is this Truth you speak of? I don't really see, based on your definition of 'deluded", how a person can not be to some level.

I am speaking of Absolute Truth about the fundamental nature of reality. They are logical Truths, as opposed to empirical "truths". Why do you think a person must be deluded about this to some extent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellid

OK so who is the truth? and how do you know he is timeless and still and can we not learn something from this person?

It can be anyone who is enlightened about the true nature of Ultimate Reality, and lives in accord with it. He is timeless in that he realizes his own infinite nature and still in that his mind is solid as a rock whereas everyone else's mind is torn by desire and emotion. There is much we can learn from this person, but the greatest teacher of all is The Infinite from which all things came.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

OK I understand perfection is not attainable. How does one reconcile the practicalities of real life with enlightenment? I also understand that simply asking this question I am failing miserably when it comes to attaining enlightenment. edit thought about it; an answer would be "I have to follow my own path"?

We're always following our own path whether we want to or not. It's just a matter of choosing the path we take wisely. Why do you think perfection is not attainable, and why would it be difficult to reconcile the practicalities of life with enlightenment?

Thank you Nick for response and it was enlightning and quite beautiful really.

kellid · 03-31-2008, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Treklis

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxkayxx

What is this Truth you speak of? I don't really see, based on your definition of 'deluded", how a person can not be to some level.

I am speaking of Absolute Truth about the fundamental nature of reality. They are logical Truths, as opposed to empirical "truths". Why do you think a person must be deluded about this to some extent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellid

OK so who is the truth? and how do you know he is timeless and still and can we not learn something from this person?

It can be anyone who is enlightened about the true nature of Ultimate Reality, and lives in accord with it. He is timeless in that he realizes his own infinite nature and still in that his mind is solid as a rock whereas everyone else's mind is torn by desire and emotion. There is much we can learn from this person, but the greatest teacher of all is The Infinite from which all things came.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

OK I understand perfection is not attainable. How does one reconcile the practicalities of real life with enlightenment? I also understand that simply asking this question I am failing miserably when it comes to attaining enlightenment. edit thought about it; an answer would be "I have to follow my own path"?

We're always following our own path whether we want to or not. It's just a matter of choosing the path we take wisely. Why do you think perfection is not attainable, and why would it be difficult to reconcile the practicalities of life with enlightenment?

We are human with so many emotions and temptations but I think if we just try a little bit each day to be less and less selfish just trying everyday is a positive energy that benefits all. (LOL I never thought I would be saying that).

Nick Treklis · 03-31-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellid

We are human with so many emotions and temptations but I think if we just try a little bit each day to be less and less selfish just trying everyday is a positive energy that benefits all. (LOL I never thought I would be saying that).

Unless you have completely eliminated your ego then we are destined to be selfish. Best to focus on the Truth as much as possible and without any extra effort you will begin to awaken. I'm reminded of what Jesus said here;

"Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now those who reap draw their wages, even now they harvest the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labour." John 4: 34

romansh · 03-31-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

Perfection ... Reminds me of my Persian carpet... the woman who stitched the carpet intentionally puts a mistake in the carpet, because only god is perfect. Trust me the intentional mistake is unnecessary. Attaining perfection is like deep dive into a Mandelbrot set ... never ending ... Let me think about this one.

Using a Mandelbrot as a simile, one place is not any less perfect than another. But we can travel through it indefinitely? So here and now are perfect but just might take a while to get there. If that makes any sense?

I always had a problem with the word "intrinsic", I understood it but when I came to apply it to something, often I did not really understand how something in actual practice could have an intrinsic property .... just an aside.

Missed a point of yours ... why do emotions only arise when we have false beliefs about reality? Of course this begs the question what are true beliefs about reality?

Nick Treklis · 04-01-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

Missed a point of yours ... why do emotions only arise when we have false beliefs about reality?

Because to experience emotion you need to be attached to something. So when one understands the true nature of reality one begins to realize there is inherently nothing there to get attached to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

Of course this begs the question what are true beliefs about reality?

Well first of all there is no such thing as a "true belief" since a belief is not something that has been proved to be true. So instead of answering your question, let me ask you one instead because I feel like you've over looked the Absolute Truths I've already stated in this discussion. What is there about reality that remains a mystery to you, or if there is no mystery then tell me what you believe or know to be true about reality?

xxkayxx · 04-02-2008, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Treklis

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxkayxx

What is this Truth you speak of? I don't really see, based on your definition of 'deluded", how a person can not be to some level.

I am speaking of Absolute Truth about the fundamental nature of reality. They are logical Truths, as opposed to empirical "truths". Why do you think a person must be deluded about this to some extent?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellid

OK so who is the truth? and how do you know he is timeless and still and can we not learn something from this person?

It can be anyone who is enlightened about the true nature of Ultimate Reality, and lives in accord with it. He is timeless in that he realizes his own infinite nature and still in that his mind is solid as a rock whereas everyone else's mind is torn by desire and emotion. There is much we can learn from this person, but the greatest teacher of all is The Infinite from which all things came.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

OK I understand perfection is not attainable. How does one reconcile the practicalities of real life with enlightenment? I also understand that simply asking this question I am failing miserably when it comes to attaining enlightenment. edit thought about it; an answer would be "I have to follow my own path"?

We're always following our own path whether we want to or not. It's just a matter of choosing the path we take wisely. Why do you think perfection is not attainable, and why would it be difficult to reconcile the practicalities of life with enlightenment?

Oh, i didnt mean about absolute truth, i just meant in general.

romansh · 04-02-2008, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Treklis

Because to experience emotion you need to be attached to something. So when one understands the true nature of reality one begins to realize there is inherently nothing there to get attached to.

I think I understand there is nothing inherently (independently) to get attached to, but what about dependently being attached ... you and I are one, so to speak?

Quote:

Well first of all there is no such thing as a "true belief" since a belief is not something that has been proved to be true. So instead of answering your question, let me ask you one instead because I feel like you've over looked the Absolute Truths I've already stated in this discussion. What is there about reality that remains a mystery to you, or if there is no mystery then tell me what you believe or know to be true about reality?

OK false beliefs exist and true ones don't, Therefore all beliefs are false?
Not quite sure what you mean by reality? But I would say there is not much that is a mystery, but there is much that I don't know.
At the basest level:
what I or my senses perceive, I take as reality. I know that things are not always as I perceive.

A part of me believes there are no absolute truths .... other than the universe.

Not sure I'm making sense.

Nick Treklis · 04-03-2008, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

OK false beliefs exist and true ones don't, Therefore all beliefs are false?

Some beliefs might be true, but usually that's just coincidence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

Not quite sure what you mean by reality? But I would say there is not much that is a mystery, but there is much that I don't know.
At the basest level:
what I or my senses perceive, I take as reality. I know that things are not always as I perceive.

By reality I mean The All, The Universe, The Totality, etc. etc. All we can say about the things we perceive is that they exist, although not inherently, and are only an infinitely small part of The Totality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

A part of me believes there are no absolute truths .

Is this an absolute truth? If so then the statement immediately falls into contradiction and becomes worthless.

romansh · 04-04-2008, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Treklis

Is this an absolute truth? If so then the statement immediately falls into contradiction and becomes worthless.

If there is an absolute truth then it is the universe.
If you ask is the statement an absolute truth the answer would be no. It is only part of the universe.
in that sense any statement is only part of an the universe, even the erroneous ones.
So me saying there are no absolute truths is not an absolute truth and therefore not a contradiction?

Tell me an absolute truth.

romansh · 04-04-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Treklis

Some beliefs might be true, but usually that's just coincidence.

cf

Quote:

Well first of all there is no such thing as a "true belief" since a belief is not something that has been proved to be true

and the evidence is .....?