Nick Treklis

They are psychologically delusional, yes.

Yes it is a psychological delusion.

Yes they are as real as night and day, and as I've already said they most likely served a purpose in the evolution of our species, but that doesn't mean they aren't delusional.

romansh

Hi Nick

OK can you give me the definition of delusion you are using... just to make sure I am understanding what you are saying.

For me emotions we feel are quite real?
Are they any more of a delusion than say a value or an idea? You indicated our values were real in a previous post if I remember correctly.

Thanks

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Nick Treklis

Delusion - a false belief.

Yes they are real, but they are still delusional because they only arise when one has holds false belifes about the fundamental nature of reality.

Values and thoughts can be as delusional as emotions depending on how deluded the mind is that contains these values and thoughts.

romansh

Ok, two guys walking through a jungle.
One thinks inherent existence is ridiculous and has purged his ego.
The other is oblivious to such considerations.
They hear a loud crack in the vegetation and see a black panther stalking them.
They both immediately have adrenalin coursing through their veins. The fight or flight response sets in.

Nick, if I understand you correctly, the oblivious person's emotional response is a false belief and egoless person's belief is not?

If this is not right, I am having trouble visualizing what you are saying.
Perhaps an example would help?

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Nick Treklis

The fight or flight response is not an emotional one. It is an unconscious reaction, a very useful one I might add, but it is not an emotional reaction. Just like when we experience pain because we bang our leg against a table, the pain itself is not an emotion. We might experience emotion as a result of the pain, but the actual electrical signals sent by the nervous system which is interpreted by the brain as pain is not emotional.

Well the average deluded person driven by his desire to live an emotionally satisfying life will generally pursue whatever he believes will make him feel good. Usually this means he will find the best job he can and start a family, become addicted to sex and drugs, join a religion, or try to gain a position of power where he can influence a large number of people. The enlightened person on the other hand is not driven by any desire at all. He is the Truth, timeless and still.

xxkayxx

What is this Truth you speak of? I don't really see, based on your definition of 'deluded", how a person can not be to some level.

__________________
If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing

kellid

Interesting point. OK so who is the truth? and how do you know he is timeless and still and can we not learn something from this person?

romansh

Surely it is based on fear? But I think I may understand your point. The example I gave is based on the Freudian id (I think), whereas say the fear of loosing one's job is based on the ego? The latter fits in line with your example below. (This is all based on quick and minimal reading this afternoon, I'm not sure I got it right). I have to admit the little bit I have read about Freudian psyche does not fit my understanding of what I observe.

OK I understand perfection is not attainable. How does one reconcile the practicalities of real life with enlightenment? I also understand that simply asking this question I am failing miserably when it comes to attaining enlightenment. edit thought about it; an answer would be "I have to follow my own path"?

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Nick Treklis

I am speaking of Absolute Truth about the fundamental nature of reality. They are logical Truths, as opposed to empirical "truths". Why do you think a person must be deluded about this to some extent?

It can be anyone who is enlightened about the true nature of Ultimate Reality, and lives in accord with it. He is timeless in that he realizes his own infinite nature and still in that his mind is solid as a rock whereas everyone else's mind is torn by desire and emotion. There is much we can learn from this person, but the greatest teacher of all is The Infinite from which all things came.

We're always following our own path whether we want to or not. It's just a matter of choosing the path we take wisely. Why do you think perfection is not attainable, and why would it be difficult to reconcile the practicalities of life with enlightenment?

romansh

Own path ... true ... but what I did mean copying somebdy else's path would likely be unwise.

Perfection ... Reminds me of my Persian carpet... the woman who stitched the carpet intentionally puts a mistake in the carpet, because only god is perfect. Trust me the intentional mistake is unnecessary. Attaining perfection is like deep dive into a Mandelbrot set ... never ending ... Let me think about this one.

I suppose other people's paths have involved unusual hardships. I could do without a couple of years on a park bench .. so to speak. I was going to say I'm inherently lazy .... we can drop the 'inherently'.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams