Piglet

A sellect 'million' human beings have shaped the human world to what it is.
[in general, like an uncut diamond]

Very few of those people gave any credence to LAW
Or accepted wisdom.

If humans believed what they were told and never questoned such.
If we did all we could to fit in. [be successfull within accepted framework]

We would still be grubbing for tubers in the bush and building huts from sticks and clay.

Piglet

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Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

debdodd

An-jel-
Is this the same guy that killed himself not long after that or did he have a break down again ... I thought I remember you telling us at one time that he went down hill not to long after your meeting?

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

The An-Jel

This was actually the friend who introduced me to the guy that ended up killing himself. Like I said I brought him to the Earth... reality in other words... aside from society. No he is still alive!

He did have a breakdown because he decided that in his new found freedom to go back to the Catholic Church. He actually works in a monastary in California. We're still friends I think. He experienced monks that were wholly dedicated to the Bible and found he did not fit in despite his genius IQ (Nothing to do with anything but he thought so... wisdom is the key I think... thats what I showed him) he broke himself but that is on him and I am sad for him. He wants now to be like them and wouldn't listen to me cause he knows my position. Last time I saw the guy he brought up what a blasphemer I am despite the freedom he found through me. He just declared he could not be with God because of his physical preferences. It really is sad but it was his choice.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

debdodd

An-jel;

That's one of the difficulties with schizoid types of mental disabilities ... you can bring them "down" occasionally but most the time they "float" back off into their world. Medication helps but often once they start feeling better they get this sense of "cured", stop their meds and go back to base line. It's nice that you tried to help but ..... often it's just a roller coaster. I once had a friend who wouldn't stay on her meds and finally I had to cut her loose ... she was sucking the life outta me. I felt bad about it but ultimately you have to realize that as much as you want to help people the have to help themselves first or else you are just a sympathetic shoulder to cry on and most of all a crutch that gets them thru the bad times but never truly help them. Just an observation .... Deb

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

The An-Jel

That isn't true by personal experience Debs but thats ok. You'd have to be there.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

debdodd

I'm not trying to imply that you didn't have a positive impact on the guy ... it's just that statistics show that unless they stay on their meds they cannot "fix" themselves. You can't discuss away diabetes, you can't discuss away pancreatic cancer ... my point is ... that they really need to be guided by professionals, stay on their meds and we laymen must use caution in our help so that we are not a hindrance in their progress ... tough love is sometimes necessary.

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

The An-Jel

I understand completely what you are saying and I heard it a billion times indeed I have and about this same situation. Statistics and Professionals... sometimes they are good and sometimes they are inaccurate.

People can place themselves in unhealthy situations where mental afflictions can produce of, if a prior condition exists, can reproduce themselves. It isn't an easy world to live in and people making it harder on themselves.

Like I said before you would have had to be there.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

debdodd

no doubt, no doubt .... mainly I was talking about ones that have a true chemical imbalance and hear voices .... not to be taken lightly. Your everyday knuckleheads like you and me ... well that's just the up and downs of life that make life interesting. Just remember not to vest yourself too heavily in "helping fix" them. I have done it, to my regret, and she was sucking the life out of me .... I'd spend hours talking to her everyday ... trying to prop her up, encourage her to take her meds .... one drama after another until I realized I was only a crutch, someone to lean on instead of her standing on her own two feet .... know what it means to "cut bait" .. well that's what I did ... she just found another sucker to be her beck and call person.

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

The An-Jel

Oh I see... yes very different situation. No schitzophrenia or other such thing. I agree with you that those types of folks have their own version of reality. One of the problems I have with modern society is this whole concept that reality is subjective to perception. I've seen it mentioned here on this Forum many times and I shudder each time I see it. Reality doesn't change no matter how hard people try and make it change... society changes and people view that as reality... because a person changes society doesn't make the basic laws of physics change. People still try and do it... its amazing what people do to their minds and spirits... while I enjoy the exploring for it's own sake. People make determinations that belie reality! It seems to me people are creating a wrapped schitzoid delusion whether it be religious or societal to the detriment of themselves and those around them as any condition like this would.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Aaron

An-Jel, please clairify your definition of reality.

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"The pump don't work cause' the vandals took the handle" - Bob Dylan