lauraclay

Were you syaing that past great thinkers didn't have to deal with the conformity we now face today?

__________________

The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

jaej

Success is obediance to a stuctured way of life..

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lauraclay

I disagree. Success is whatever makes you happy.

__________________

The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

Aaron

Two good points. In terms of the every day American rat race, jaej nailed it right of the head. It's a sad truth. If you refuse to conform and obey the rules of structured society, sucess by societies standards will be unreachable.(Unless you are a truely talented artist, musichian, or criminal)

LC, I think has a great point from the perspective of personal success. Each of us can see great success in much of what we and those around us do every day.

It's all a matter of which standard you choose to rate success.

__________________
"The pump don't work cause' the vandals took the handle" - Bob Dylan

jaej

suc·cess
–noun
1. the favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors.
2. the attainment of wealth, position, honors, or the like.
3. a successful performance or achievement: The play was an instant success.
4. a person or thing that is successful: She was a great success on the talk show.

suc·cess
1. The achievement of something desired, planned, or attempted: attributed their success in business to hard work.
2.
a) The gaining of fame or prosperity: an artist spoiled by success.
b) The extent of such gain.
3. One that is successful: The plan was a success.

While contentment certainly is dependant on happiness, success isn't. Success is material. Although I agree it does have to do a lot with your perspective and 'personal success', whatever that means.

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The An-Jel

While they are using physical examples for success these definitions can apply to every aspect of the person; physically, mentally, and spiritually. Imagine meeting up with a manic depressive Catholic in a half way home he befriends you because he looks at you like a sucker to throw his voodoo at you and you two end up talking. Well in time he finally tells you that through the conversations the two of you had that he no longer needs his meds and the church seems unnecessary. You have redeemed this man to the Earth and he can get along like anyone else. You were Successful (part 1 numbers 3 and 4 of your definition and part 2 number 1 the attempted part of your definiton) mentally and spiritually in mending this broken man. This really happened incidently.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

jaej

Alright, but I still maintain that success is material (or in the instance of An-Jel's post, successful by accident; nonetheless, something was achieved). However, I think happiness comes in to play as far as what level of achievement you are content with.

And attempted definition? Are you talking about the last part?

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The An-Jel

Just that the man was attempting to do this and achieved what he was attempting. Unfortunately he joined back with the Catholic Church, joined a monastary as a worker, and became subservient to the Church and found himself and his lifestyle unworthy once again. In the long run he became unsuccessful mentally and spiritually by his own doing. I think you can see the point though.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

jaej

Oh I see. Sorry for the confusion.

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Aaron

Personal success is an achievement that matters only to the person who made the attempt.

__________________
"The pump don't work cause' the vandals took the handle" - Bob Dylan