George

*sigh*...

I was over a friend's house on Saturday and we saw on the news about the 2 young boys who had been kidnapped by some wacko finally being returned "relatively" unharmed. One of the other guests in my buddy's home stated "that is nothing but God's work right there". She then looked at me while pointing at the television and said "see.. how can you doubt God when miracles like this happen?".

Now I've long since gotten over being singled out for my beliefs so I didn't take it personally. I quickly replied: "So what about the thousands of other kids who get kidnapped every year and never return or are savagely beaten, raped, and tortured till death. Is that's God's work too? You selectively give God credit for things you like but when something bad happens, God had no control over it?"

We went on for a few minutes back and forth and she even pulled the satan card, arguing that satan is the cause of all bad things and God is the cause of all good. What a human way of looking at it I said. But I digress...

The point being she ended up saying that I just can't understand because I'm an atheist. I tried to explain to her that it wasn't a blatant non-belief in God that motivated my comments, but A) that she had called ME out and B) The thought that her original comment was a bit one sided and deserved to be checked.

She wasn't buying it. So I'm an atheist now in her eyes...

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The An-Jel

I think you well know by now George that if your not with the Christian right you are AGAINST them. Nothing you say against the "True Beleiver" is going to make a difference. They will call you whatever they need to to justify their way of life. I think fear rules the religious mind, the monkey mind as I like to think of it.

I'll give you a small story of my own personal experience (AMONG MANY TRUST ME) that caused me to stop fully arguing with religious people. I felt and feel bad even though it isn't really on me. This nice guy at a half-way house for the mentally incapacitated had found God through some Church I can't remember which. I didn't have a car and I needed a ride to work so he wanted to give me one. He was about to go out on his own, back into the real world, a fine example of psychiatry blended with meds and time to heal his fractured mind. Now I am a tall Aryan looking male. Blonde, blue-eyed, thin... German to boot. Hitler would have loved looking at me anyway. I guess I exude enough "innocense" that religious people feel this overwhelming need to try and convert me. Well this guy did. I mean he was out of the house in 2 weeks, it wasn't a sanitarium except for the drug abusers. He did his spiel about God and I did my best to hold back but if anyone who has ever been preyed upon by the religious right well the constant references that You as a person are inadequate gnaws on you. So I let loose but knowing who he was I was gentle... I told him he couldn't possibly know who or what Jesus was and that this and that was mysterious as absolute truth with the Bible. He dropped me off and two days later the man was dead. My buddy who hooked me up with the ride said he attacked a woman the day after and then in the morning of the second day he hanged himself.

I don't feel totally bad though I can't even say it was me though my friend is utterly convinced and he did talk to the guy, he seemed utterly deflated when he got back, that he and our conversation was the catalyst for his behavior.

Religion from most of the absolute righteous I find to be immature and one sided from their point of view that any refutation is or should be immpossible.

George screw that chick and her thoughts man she is a self righteous creature that can't see true life through the blinders. You made valid points in my book. I know where your comin' from I think!

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"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

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GloryB

I'm sorry, I'll be sure to send you the big scarlet A from the secret Atheist society to wear next time you visit with her. It is so annoying when people call you out, especially when they really have no clue what you believe.

GloryB

The An-Jel

Maybe Agnostics should be called Egnostics... no painted A which can go either way when the mumbling masses look at you. We will have an E which can be called Agnostic or Earth-based or Reality based... specially since reality gives us nothing but work to find the truth.

Incidently my story above was tragically true. It's probably the worst of my stories most of the time I have been avoided or religion was avoided by the most devoded of religious followers.

I think I prefer people to simply avoid me I don't know about you folks.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Vfr

I would tell you be secure in your beliefs and what you do not know and not be so cornered with others views of you.

I also recommend you listening to: Faith and Reason - Philosophy of Religion

Modern Scholar Series - recorded books - 7 CD's

Lecturer: Professor Peter Kreeft

A highly recommend series for anyone interested in the subject of religion and spiritual studies. The professor is a long time resident of Boston college. I was afraid he would give a biased view of religion due to his association with a Jesuit school. But I found this course to be very fair minded. I could not tell and preference for any side of the subject and he argued for all sides with the same zeal. The bulk of the course discussed the monotheist and atheist views while the remainder dealt with comparative religion studies of Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucius, and Taoism.

Course Syllabus

Lecture 1 What Is Religion? Why Is It Worth Thinking About?

Lecture 2 Atheism

Lecture 3 The Problem of Evil

Lecture 4 Arguments for God’s Existence from Nature (Cosmological Arguments)

Lecture 5 Arguments for God’s Existence from Human Experience (Psychological Arguments)

Lecture 6 Religion and Science

Lecture 7 The Case Against Life After Death

Lecture 8 The Case for Life After Death: Twelve Arguments

Lecture 9 Different Concepts of Heaven

Lecture 10 Hell

Lecture 11 Testing the Different Truth-Claims of Different Religions

Lecture 12 Comparative Religions

Lecture 13 What Would Socrates Think?

Lecture 14 Religious Experience


Modern Scholar - Recorded Books, LLC

Og

Another great Jesuit to read from is "Anthony deMello"

Particularly his book "Awareness" and his last little book of meditations called "The way to love".

He's a catholic jesuit priest who lived in india. His spirituality is a wonderful hybridization of eastern spirituality into the teachings of christ and their application in modern life.

He's not so deep into philosophy of religion or dogma. But I thought of it when V mentioned a jesuit who was behaving differently than you'd think of normally when you hear "Catholic."

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You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Geshtinnanna

I wouldn't really pay her any mind. Once someone pulls the 'Satan' card, I lose all hope of every talking to them as a sane human being. I usually nod and say yes, I worship TEH devil and give the heavy metal fingers. I have better things to do then deal with kooks

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Fire Legion

There's no need to get so worked up over a name. I used to, until I realised that names are immaterial. I could be called a Jiminijoojooist and I'd still believe the same thing.
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

Also, who cares if she thinks you are an atheist. She's clearly a dogmatic and ignorant individual who has no relevant or mature views on the subject.