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03-21-2008, 02:23 PM
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#231 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romansh  Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowind 1. doesn't our reason and logic work off of our perception or interpretation, are they not at least in part based off it? | Yes, I understand what you are saying.
Our logic and reason is based on perception.
Like science (in fact it may as well be) we our continually checking perception against logic/reason and reconciling. Of course there is a problem here, there is no reference point here to get absolute answers.... this may be what you mean? Nevertheless, we can get some sense of relative truths.
For example:
Something I learned recently... the human eye cannot see stationary objects.
OK, I think. The wall looks pretty stationary to me. Actually the eye has continuous tiny movements to help see these stationary objects. So which is moving, the wall or the eye? I 'know' the wall is moving, spinning around relative to the centre of the earth, the sun, the centre of milky way and who knows what else. So relative to my eye which is moving? Now, relative to someone elses moving eye it is obvious relatively speaking that it is my eye that is moving.
So my point .... I agree it's not by any means perfect, but the continual reconciling of perception and logic is amazing powerful .... and it's called science. | i think you got the gist of what i was trying to say, which was basicly that theres no way to know for certain and that things are relative to the perceiver, the image in the mirror might just be a image, but how do we know when all we can do is look at the mirror? science is cool, i like it alot, it seems to rely on the idea our perception is reliable, which is fine so long as perception is consistent.
mmm, so if somebody matched the tiny momements of the eye, could they appear to not move, and thus not be seen?
__________________  remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll | 
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03-21-2008, 02:41 PM
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#232 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowind mmm, so if somebody matched the tiny momements of the eye, could they appear to not move, and thus not be seen? | apparently the answer is yes .... http://www.newscientist.com/backpage...mg19726382.600
and here's an example of Troxler's fading http://www.michaelbach.de/ot/col_lilacChaser/index.html
Science does continually check/reconcile that our perceptions make sense.
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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams
Last edited by romansh : 03-21-2008 at 04:08 PM.
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03-22-2008, 08:35 AM
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#233 (permalink)
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that last links trippy 
__________________ remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll | |
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03-22-2008, 10:17 AM
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#234 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowind that last links trippy | did you go one level up? A collection of other illusions/perceptions.
__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams | |
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03-29-2008, 07:04 AM
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#235 (permalink)
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what is an agnostic? a glorified fence sitter? | |
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03-29-2008, 07:08 AM
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#236 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romansh | Do you know how much money the government gives to "scientific research'? only to then confuse us with updated or mistaken theories? it's enough to make you go hmmmm? | |
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03-29-2008, 07:46 AM
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#237 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Good points THEWAULRUS.
As stated in my opening post, agnosticism is a concept not a religion. The word philosophy as you used does actually describe it better.
Though agnostics do tend to get persecuted as if they are part of a religion. | Hello George! why the need to even give yourself a "label" why do you have to explain why you are an agnostic? or even feel the need to call yourself an agnostic?? is being agnostic a "grey" area? therefore you have to go into depth about why you feel the way you do? or are you hoping through this website for example that someone will change you mind one way or another? | |
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03-29-2008, 07:49 AM
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#238 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEWAULRUS Im an old Christian, I used to be one. And what does my post have anything to do with sex? If anything I am going to hell just becasue of using god's name in vain and lying occasioanaly. And I am agnoctic. I do state things from a Christian point of view, you're right. But I am a true agnostic in my own beleifs so say what you want to say about who you "think" I am. But the true agnostics on this forum do exist, there are not a lot of them though. And if you don't like something about me, tell me it! | An agnostic that believes in Hell?  | |
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03-29-2008, 09:32 AM
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#239 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kellid Do you know how much money the government gives to "scientific research'? only to then confuse us with updated or mistaken theories? it's enough to make you go hmmmm? | The correct answer is "yes and not enough" ... when you say " confuse us", who do you mean by "us"?
Who should be paying for the research... oil companies, tobacco companies, Christian organizations?
Reading through your posts I take it you are not a fan of science and don't really understand it; either in depth or in a general philosophical way?
all thr best and welcome
__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams | |
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03-29-2008, 03:25 PM
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#240 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romansh Quote:
Originally Posted by kellid Do you know how much money the government gives to "scientific research'? only to then confuse us with updated or mistaken theories? it's enough to make you go hmmmm? | The correct answer is "yes and not enough" ... when you say " confuse us", who do you mean by "us"?
Who should be paying for the research... oil companies, tobacco companies, Christian organizations?
Reading through your posts I take it you are not a fan of science and don't really understand it; either in depth or in a general philosophical way?
all thr best and welcome | Hello! I have from time to time actually managed to put 2 and 2 together and got 4 everytime! (I think) my point about scientific research was regarding the more ridiculous for example somebody or organization in the name of science is getting a huge amount of government funds to research weather or not tomatoes cause cancer, how many times have we heard that one? and then the next year we find the old tomatoe may actually help prevent it, kind of a lame example. Let me ask you this can science explain where compassion and love come from? I realize some emotions have been explained through brain research like endorphines etc but what about love? have you ever loved or felt love? | |
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