Definition of an Agnostic. Just so we're clear... - Page 2

scpitcher · 09-29-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by }SoC{Sumguy

could you please specify what this "establishment" is?

Not sure SoC, but I suspect that their favorite form of transportation is a very dark shade of non-fixed wing aircraft capable of vertical take-off.

mplltt · 10-01-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scpitcher

Not sure SoC, but I suspect that their favorite form of transportation is a very dark shade of non-fixed wing aircraft capable of vertical take-off.

where are the pyramids?!? The establishment climbs out of their aircraft and made us a new one.

THEWAULRUS · 10-03-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George

Good points THEWAULRUS.

As stated in my opening post, agnosticism is a concept not a religion. The word philosophy as you used does actually describe it better.

Though agnostics do tend to get persecuted as if they are part of a religion.

Because in a sense, any widley practiced philosophy with a strong common beleif, even atheism can be LABELED as a religion.

Toonia · 10-06-2006, 06:07 PM

After involvement in many discussions online with both theists and atheists I find the manner in which I process information to be different from both. I have not studied agnosticism in depth, but so far have found more similarities between theists and atheists in the manner in which information is processed. I have seen quite a few paralell's in the thinking styles of these opposite poles: valueing black-and-white categories of value, answers taking precedence over questions, and dismissal as a filtering process for information. Converting/convincing others has been a strong motivator for both and it is not "okay" to be in a different camp.

So far both have rejected my desire to ask "Is there God? What is God? What is?" The theist see it as doubt and sinful, the atheist as irrational. Theists perceive me as an atheist and atheists perceive me as a theist. It is frustrating to have black-and-white assumptions and categories constantly projected onto my statements. I am still trying to learn how to communicate. I do not hold any belief absolutely, but with varying degrees of certainty.

I do feel compelled to search for "god", a deeper awareness, the meaning sentience has come into existence. That my mind can't even hold within it a literal size of the earth which is but a speck, leaves me to consider that an answer is not guaranteed. I feel like the search is a climb through high mountains. Many set up camp with the assumption they have arrived at the end of the journey. I don't know if or where the journey will end, but I feel compelled to search. People who assume agnosticism is lazy do not understand how hard it is to live without resolution - to never set up camp.

mplltt · 10-07-2006, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonia

After involvement in many discussions online with both theists and atheists I find the manner in which I process information to be different from both. I have not studied agnosticism in depth, but so far have found more similarities between theists and atheists in the manner in which information is processed. I have seen quite a few paralell's in the thinking styles of these opposite poles: valueing black-and-white categories of value, answers taking precedence over questions, and dismissal as a filtering process for information. Converting/convincing others has been a strong motivator for both and it is not "okay" to be in a different camp.

So far both have rejected my desire to ask "Is there God? What is God? What is?" The theist see it as doubt and sinful, the atheist as irrational. Theists perceive me as an atheist and atheists perceive me as a theist. It is frustrating to have black-and-white assumptions and categories constantly projected onto my statements. I am still trying to learn how to communicate. I do not hold any belief absolutely, but with varying degrees of certainty.

I do feel compelled to search for "god", a deeper awareness, the meaning sentience has come into existence. That my mind can't even hold within it a literal size of the earth which is but a speck, leaves me to consider that an answer is not guaranteed. I feel like the search is a climb through high mountains. Many set up camp with the assumption they have arrived at the end of the journey. I don't know if or where the journey will end, but I feel compelled to search. People who assume agnosticism is lazy do not understand how hard it is to live without resolution - to never set up camp.

Thankyou for approaching this issue. I would like to share with you some reason in response to your belief that there is no God/diety absolutely. If I may quote:

"Atheism, in its broadest sense, is the absence of belief in the existence of deities. A narrower definition includes only those who believe that deities do not exist, and excludes those who hold no position on the question"

"Atheism." Wikipedia. 4 October 2006. Wikipedia Foundation. 6 October 2006. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism>.

The dictionary calls it:

"noun. disbelief in the existence of God."

I believe that the reason that approaching the question as you say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonia

So far both have rejected my desire to ask "Is there God? What is God? What is?"

As an agnostic, I believe that you should not confront a person with the direct question: "is there a God?" because it would promote a conflict. If you don't use your books to resolve the issues that are asked, well then you are left to question yourself, "if you believe or not," "Do you remember you believe?" "What is belief?" I am non-invasive. These questions make other people invasive and we are stuck with deciding about absolute religious truth.

In answer to your previous question:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonia

That my mind can't even hold within it a literal size of the earth which is but a speck, leaves me to consider that an answer is not guaranteed. I feel like the search is a climb through high mountains. Many set up camp with the assumption they have arrived at the end of the journey. I don't know if or where the journey will end, but I feel compelled to search.

That is just the establishment, killing a wonderful journey that would require a lot of technical skill and practice, even for a beginner would give them a chance to live. There is no end until nature cries out, "there is a God." To pretend that there is an end and call this philosophical could add to your final destruction if you do not use your willingness for hostpitality could give you something that would keep you from reliquishing stamina. Your ability to just remember that tradition is to stay on the right path, will go on. Also to remember the statement that would allow a person so much freedom to choose for themselves and not be a lackey for the establishment is: "To each his own." This is the way around the cause for over-estimating the ability to make it, to rest and to journey on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonia

People who assume agnosticism is lazy do not understand how hard it is to live without resolution - to never set up camp.

constant wandering is circles, "When does it end!"

mplltt · 10-18-2006, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THEWAULRUS

Agnosticism can hardly be called a religion. It is the most open-minded of philosophies, in that an agnostic does not believe in anything; he does not even ascribe to a doctrine of unbelief, like an Atheist. A true agnostic does not assume to know the answers to the supreme questions of the universe (why are we here, how did we get here, what put us here . . . ) – he does not say that there is a god or supernatural being involved with the answers to those questions, but he also does not say there isn’t. The definition of agnosticism is very easy: Agnostics keep an open mind toward everything in the universe, and rely on solid proof or logical scientific theories to formulate their opinions.

If sex is free then why are there conditions put on how to talk to a woman from the man's point of view? What does it mean that sex to be free there are conditions placed on the things that a man must have in order to have free sex? What does it mean for a man to ask while he has to tell his teachers to go f#*% off for sex to be free? Why are teachers teaching that all that people want to know is that sex is free if the same teachers are placing conditions on sex? What is free sex? What does it mean to have only one standard not to pass the certian point with themselves. What does it mean when people ask if they want sex to be free that they are told that it is not? What do people ask when they are told that they cannot ask? What is it that sex is free if people are not allowed to know that sex is free? What does it mean for sex to be free that only a few people are allowed to have? What does it mean when sex is free that people are told that they cannot think because sex should be free in order for them not to ask for sex to be free? WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE TO TELL ME THAT SEX SHOULD BE FREE and lie? what does it mean that sex is free when we are told that sex is justified not to be free? What is the answer for people to believe that sex is free and they are not allowed to have free sex? What is conditional love if people know that sex should be free? How is sex free when people know that this will never be erased in the history of mankind that you don't believe that sex should be free trying to fool everybody? Why is sex not free when I know that sex should be free? Since when do I NOT GET TO HAVE SEX WITH A WOMAN??????????

by the way, who do you think you are telling me what agnostics are when you are obviously an acting wannabe christian? I've been baptized so many goddamn times I could give a rats butt what you think about me. I hate christians and I want to go to hell.

THEWAULRUS · 10-18-2006, 05:09 AM

Im an old Christian, I used to be one. And what does my post have anything to do with sex? If anything I am going to hell just becasue of using god's name in vain and lying occasioanaly. And I am agnoctic. I do state things from a Christian point of view, you're right. But I am a true agnostic in my own beleifs so say what you want to say about who you "think" I am. But the true agnostics on this forum do exist, there are not a lot of them though. And if you don't like something about me, tell me it!

mplltt · 10-18-2006, 10:46 PM

I am not going to make you proud, I am not going to win you over, I am not going to make you envy, I want my fare share.

THEWAULRUS · 10-18-2006, 10:48 PM

Share of what?

}SoC{Sumguy · 10-19-2006, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mplltt

where are the pyramids?!? The establishment climbs out of their aircraft and made us a new one.

.....ok...have fun with that.