Vfr

Freethinker is a popular term thrown around atheists and agnostic circles. I use it myself to describe my spiritual belief. I posted on the subject of "Peace Tools for Atheists, Agnostics and Believers" to the 'alt.atheist' discussion group to open up some dialogue on what tools are available for the atheist or agnostic to use to generate inner peace in place of organized religion. All the tools and concepts I discussed were available for any person to use without the belief in God.

In my post I covered many tools from simplicity, compassion, classical philosophical studies, ethics, mindfulness, reciprocity, charity, accepting impermanence, developing gratitude and contentment, cutting back on craving and desires, working with natural law, balanced living, etc. I illustrated how I use freethinking to take tools for peace wherever I find them without prejudice and evaluate the tool on it own and not under guilt by association. All the tools I discussed were available to use without the belief in God.

I received the following 8 replies out of a membership of 1611 atheists 'freethinkers' subscribers from this post: http://www.agnosticforums.com/morali...believers.html

All replies below are from 'alt.atheist' usenet group:


"I've never been not at peace. What you offer makes me physically ill. It's like a nasty man come round to tell little kiddees he has candy for them if they touch his pee pee. You know, most of the atheists I know are as good as children are at discerning misrepresentation. You aren't trying to help anyone but your own self. Go away, we have no interest in touching your pee pee."

"First of all, this is a newsgroup, not the freaking public library. Keep it short and to the point. Second, you're full of s**t."

"Stop posting your vile polemic deliberately nasty, lying Christian? Please go away. No-one is buying your poisonous diatribe. Are you really this stupid, or just pretending?"

"We know this deliberately nasty, slandering liar is a Christian by his fruits. A liar as well as an idiot. Don't be so f**king stupid."

"What the f**k has philosophy got to do with your in-your-face psychopathy?"

"You wouldn't know "virtuous behaviour" if it hit you over the head, whining hypocrite who needs to get the log out of his own eye before accusing us of a projection of his own deficiencies."

"So f**king what? Keep it to yourself and nobody will know what an a**hole you are."

"Why would any atheist need tools for peace?"


All these replies came from non-freethinking atheists. How do I know they are non-freethinking atheist? Because of their replies. I do not expect for anyone to agree with any or all of my tools. But if we disagree with a concept, we must have another concept to replace what we have torn down in our minds as wrong. How do we know what is wrong unless we know what is right? With this group, all they could offer to replace my tools were 'ad hominem' arguments to destroy me and not destroy the concepts. Such non-freethinkers are characterized not by sound judgment, rationality and wisdom, but by a prejudiced insobriety of opinion that roots itself of egoistic pride. Through a life based in condemnation prior to investigation, they do not see that as they go to extreme measures to have no connection with spirituality, their actions also causes a lose of connection with any humanity.

Sure tearing others down appeals to ones ego and pride, but so did torturing insects when we were kids. When we grow up we need a different way to find self worth. As you instill seeds of peace within others you plant the same seeds and water these seeds within you as well. As you give so you receive. Is that from the bible or karma? No, it is just universal law. Do we like to be beaten down? Whenever we take it upon ourselves to beat down others, we are headed in a direction of destroying peace. We destroy our own peace as well as others peace. It takes no energy from me to pass something by and leave it alone in peace. But it takes my energy as well as my peace to pick something up to destroy it.

That is the beauty of being a freethinker. We can think for ourselves. As such, when we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for the job. Some tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the time being, and still others are trashed when we see they are broken and useless. Again, a freethinker is 'free to decide' how they wish to proceed. Just be careful of falling into the trap of 'mind manacled freethinker' as many ego based people fall into. And this especially applies to atheists who are notorious for falling into this trap.

Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices." When we limit prejudice we can open our minds to truth and peace. And realize that "All Deities reside within the human breast," ~ Blake

hokeshel

I am a Christian and I find it disturbing that you were treated this way. It seems that the poeple who are first to claim intolerance are often the most intollerant. If it makes you feel at peace, then good for you. I am here to learn about others people's opinions and I respect yours.
Some of the comments there are a little amusing such as
"Why would any atheist need tools for peace?"
and the confusion between Christian and Buddahism as well as the point of using tools and not religeon.

Lyricb

Wow, those are some pretty horrible comments. Is that truly what you were expecting to get from those folks, or did it come as a surprise to you?

The An-Jel

I noticed a Christian invasion even though the respect was "in the right place"... denial to me is denial to ones self. I think a person who is so enraged by a possible god is an outtrage to people that are in fear of a real god. An Athiest that thinks this way wants it all for themselves. The problem I have with Atheism is that it is a way of covering up their own depravities. As far as what you have seen... agnostics are spiritual and physical explorers. Ignore the fright and the pain that I just read dude or chick. Denial is the best way a monkey knows fear and accepts fear because they can't accept themselves. No one really knows what the future brings unless they pretend they know Vfr. All the power to you.

MickinEngland

You know, now I come to think of it, I've no doubt some atheists and agnostics and non-christians are just plain scare-babies
I mean,Jesus told us some pretty scary things, namely that there are demons led by a Darth Vader called Satan who are out to get us , and that if they do get us they'll drag us to a torture-chamber called hell with them forever..

So if that terrifies people, what easier way to refuse to accept it than to simply wrap themselves in a comfort blanket by poo-pooing christianity and refusing to accept it?

It's like a young bunny about to leave the safety of the burrow for the first time.
"Watch out for the fox" his mates warn him.
"I'll be alright, I don't believe in foxes" he replies, "Byeeee......................oh sh*t..............................AARGHH!"

MickinEngland

PS - Don't worry, Jesus kicks demon ass, stick with him and you'll be okay ;)

Jesus said - "I cast out devils by the finger of God" (Luke 11:19/20)

"When evening came, many who were demonposessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick." (Matt 8:16)

Demon in a man yelled in fear - "Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God" (Mark 1:24)

Whole lotta shakin' goin' on - "Believe in God,the demons also believe and tremble" (James 2:19)

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms" (Eph 6:12)

The An-Jel

You can't use your own mind and tell the "demons" to do it themselves?

LadyLuck

=O I can't believe those people said all those terrible things! However, Vfr, you are like some kind of super genius! All your arguements are well thought out and intelligent, you're so cool!

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berlinlife06

Wow Vfr! Talk about surrounded by intolerant people! I think that the key to understanding and living in peace with each other is precisely to accept our differences and be open to dialog, without getting in a nasty name-calling-screaming match that only shows how square-narrow-minded some people can be! I'm sorry people answer you that way... But I guess that helped you to confirm your own beliefs. I think I have a long process in understanding many things! I'm glad I joined this group!