R3NNiS

The new covenant does, in one sense, make the old covenant obsolete- in that it is not the complete law, and without the new law of love, all acts of righteousness are meaningless. then if you want to see the full connection, take a look at 1st Corinthians 13 (love section). I know this chapter is justa bout cliche nowadays..spoken at weddings a lot, but this is packed with meaning about what the law of love has done to all other laws and measures of morality. Without love, ...nothing.

But in another sense, In Christ's fulfillment of the Law, the new covenant establishes and reaffirms the old testament covennant into a greater law of Grace (and love).

The laws of the first coventant make sense, in a moral framework of right and wrong, but they do not make sense, by themselves, inlight of the Creator's love and his judgement. No-one can keep the law, and no-one can escape it. No-one can keep from hurting someone else, from hurting themselves, and from offending the Creator. By itself, the law of the Old Covenant shows us how we ought ot be, and the believer followed the Law out of fear, because of the Judgement.

The greater law of grace, established in Christ's work onthe Cross provides an unprecedented freedom for the believer to follow the law out of love rather than fear.

__________________
True Love teaches love, and practices grace, but if necessary is unafraid to instill fear in the immature.-me

The An-Jel

Now there are a lot of new stuff that has been created as time has progressed in Christian mythology like Purgatory (which if I had a choice hehehe) and even the Rapture. I mean the common belief today is created only by influences of the Bible and I have no idea where Purgatory came from except as a safe gate for professed Christians that have sinned and non-believers that have not believed in Gods law. Is this true definitively in Biblical terms or in reinterrpretations of the Bible by modern God-fearing people?

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Vfr

Thoughts....YES


....My discussion of a similar topic from an earlier post.


(Anonymous Atheist 1) writes:

"What are the morals we should follow? Whose morals are correct? How do we agree upon a common set of morals? or even what are morals?"

(Anonymous Atheist 2) writes:

"Atheism is making real progress with destroying religion.)



*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********


V:



Hi and thanks for your posts.

Like to get rid of all religion and replace it with morals without God? But cant decide on whose morals are the correct ones to replace religious morals?

The short answer:

Destroying others always destroys peace. It destroys your peace as well as the inner peace of the one that you destroys ... look to the God of Inner Peace and the God of Nature for moral and ethical values. Even if you dump Yahweh, you can never dump these two Gods and live a flourishing, healthy peaceful life.

See:

http://**********************/jne/fo...hp?topic=342.0


The long answer:

There is no answer no matter how long you make it that gives an absolute answer, for we will always come up with exceptions to the rule with this subject.

The question of universal morals and laws are the subject of numerous college classes and even with a Ph.D., it still depends on the person and their spiritual health when they answer such a question.

The arguments always seem to be around Moral Relativism vs Objectivism vs Determinism vs Emotivism vs Ethical subjectivism vs Moral Absolutism and around and around they go.

Add a few more components to the equation, such as Universality, The Golden Rule of Reciprocity, Natural Law
Theory, listening to the God of Inner Peace, Greater Good vs the Greater Right, Flourishing of the Species Theory and 'Might Makes Right' and people can get really stuck in analysis paralysis.

What is the best answer?

There is no best answer, other than it is a mix of all these in that yield us a 'best fit' equation to morals and ethics to live by.

All these concepts requires the individual to have thinking ability and a 'conscious' supported by spiritual values to come to the best fit for the circumstances at question. Humans have a conscious since they do not run solely by instinct as animals do. Without a spiritual based conscious they would turn to self-destruction.

This is a good topic to study up, for without having a feel for how this all works and without the fear of religion to keep humans in check, humans soon turn into monsters that sink to levels even below that of the beasts. You see, religion are humans brand of prepackaged morals. One just hopes that the various religious sects did a good job in developing the packages.

With atheists, many a time they lack spiritual values and are run by ill will, fear, hatred and a bloated ego. This goes for theists as well, so I am not singling out atheists as a problem. It just goes to illustrate that whether religious or not...it takes more to live a life at peace than belief in God or freedom from God.

I discuss some of these issues here:

http://**********************/jne/fo....php?topic=4.0

http://**********************/jne/fo...hp?topic=318.0

http://**********************/jne/fo...hp?topic=380.0

You will never get people to agree on anything. Some are sick, some are well and the rest are somewhere in between. And some of the well ones get sick on other days and d it is the same with the sick ones.

The best we can do is to live 'our life at peace' and help promote peace within others.

There are 3 components necessary to live a happy life: CONTENTMENT, LOVE or COMPASSION and GRATITUDE. When we realize that happiness is there for the taking and it is independent from our circumstances it someday may sink in that there is nothing stopping us from being content and happy RIGHT NOW!

The choice is your if you have had enough pain. Examine which of these components is missing in your life.

As James Allen wrote in As a man Thinketh:

"To think well of all, to be cheerful with all, to patiently learn to find the good in all - such unselfish thoughts are the very portals of heaven; and to dwell day by day in thoughts of peace toward every creature will bring abounding peace to their possessor."

Early records for moral codes goes back to Egypt with the 42 negative confessions. Scholars think the 10 commandments came from these. Yahweh also dictated over 600 other commandments and rules for the Jews to live my. So, even in the old days, it was a tough job trying to follow the rules.

Nowadays we can take courses that deal with morals, values and making laws but when you finish them you are sometime more confused than when you started.

Does this mean we should chuck the whole thing and give up?

No, for is we gave it no thought we would really be into deep trouble.

We have to do with morals and values the same as we do with life. We live it the best we can albeit imperfectly and do this until the day we die if we wish to flourish.

The text that you have entered is too long (15827 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long.


...sorry had to cut the rest.



Take care,


V (Male)

Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher

The An-Jel

I would interject with LOVE and COMPASSION with PASSION and RESPECT for others who are in essentially the same Living Equation that you are.

I don't think Religion has any form of respect for anything. If there is a God out there that cares in the least I don't think she/he/it would feel we would having any form of respect for her/him/it because we don't seem to have any respect for ourselves or the universe we exist in unless it is threatening. Pats unfriendly apes on the heads threw the cage really quick.

__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

Piglet

An Jel

I think her/him/it as you put it, set this universe up
[theres more than one universe, there is never just one of anything,
name me one thing you know of that exists and that there is just one of.
The only thing is the universe itself, and thats just because we cant
see the others.]

And 'it' set this universe up to do one thing.
Make self aware rational beings. There may be many such
[through the process of evolution]

One day, a million years from now, that which made the laws,
will find a visitor at it's door.
A creature from one of its 'projects'
That being will say

"We are humanity, we seek the designer."

To which 'the designer' will say [with a small tear in eye]
'thank myself, someone to talk to at last. I had all but forgotten project 27B"

It may be exacty that prosaic

All the fools with their heavenly light and hellish punnishment.
Are just that. fools.

Piglet

__________________
Vir prudens non contra ventum mingit

goldilockz

I like it.

And to the poster who stated that Christianity is based on goodwill to others, so is Islam, and there are those killing hundreds for that. People kill for their "goodwill toward others" religions every day.