Nick Treklis

I wouldn't say all agnostics are cowards, some might honestly not yet feel confident in any conclusions they may have heard or come up with. Agnostics who cling to the label because it means they never have to commit, they never question things too deeply, or think all knowledge is unprovable are probably a mix of cowardice and other traits I find undesirable.

Og

Agnostic does not preclude being atheistic about yaweh because he/she/it is a logical impossibility. To me, agnostic is the scientific approach.

In science, you never take a positive stance. You are always hedging your bet. The process of science is like sculpting. You remove what is not the sculpture to leave the sculpture. In science, you carve the truth out of the space of all possibilities. You always refine your sculpture by removing a bit more, but you never directly address the truth itself.

It's the sherlock holmes adage "Once you eliminate the probable, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

I certainly agree that yaweh is a logical impossibility outside of the human psyche. This does not prevent me from being an agnostic.

Yaweh is just another chip of marble on the floor.

Atheism is a boring stance for me. It says nothing other than what I already know. Agnosticism, to me, is the much broader and powerful term. Atheists are very ego centric it seems to me (I don't mean egotistical).

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The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

The An-Jel

Yep

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Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

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pseudonous

Sure. How can someone make a claim about the existence of something before that something is defined?

Who's making an exception?

Prove it.

All of these arguments have been rehearsed endlessly by speculative philosophy. Speculative philosophy is not scientific philosophy.

If your going to make any claim you should have evidence to back it up. Otherwise, you are just taking things on faith.

No. If anything I would say atheists are showing a lack of intellect when they claim no god can exist, but that would be something like an ad hominem.

Logically airtight? Maybe, but you can prove anything with logic if you chose the right premises.

That question would be impossible to answer if you don't have knowledge of an absolute morality.

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"One is most dishonest to one's god: he is not allowed to sin." - Nietzsche

Jodou1

Well not all Agnostics hold the same views as each other. I'll speak for myself but I don't consider myself "agnostic" on the specific issue of Jesus, I would be an Athiest in that context.

What I am Agnostic on is the existence of ANY higher being. Regardless if this is the best possible world or not, the answer to if there is something "up there" doesn't rest upon that.

Even if every scientific theory was proven 100% undeniably true, that still doesn't prove that all of those things weren't simply the methods used by something greater. I myself believe in evolution, not so much the big bang theory, one thing nags at me on that.

I believe this is not the best possible world, but one day I hope to take pride in working to make it better.

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“Infidelity does not consist in believing or in disbelieving: it consists in professing to believe what one does not believe.”-Thomas Paine

xexon

Cowards are people who follow the wagging tail in front of them.

Agnostics don't qualify.

They looked up, and are now open to suggestions.



x

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Destroyer of Worlds

onlooking eternal

In all honesty, at this point in my life, I am pretty much an atheist with respect to a personal god. And by "personal god," I mean a god like the one Evangelical Christians worship---one that can and will act as a personal friend and guide to each person on the planet; one that listens to everyone's prayers and answers according to His Will; one that gets mad at people for not believing in Him and worshiping Him; and so on. I think I can say with pretty much 100 percent honesty that a god like that doesn't exist.

However, I AM agnostic towards other types of higher powers. I am not opposed to their being a deistic god out there somewhere. Even with that, though, my thoughts are that it probably doesn't exist. But a distant, impersonal god like the one most deists believe in doesn't seem too unlikely for me to allow for the possibility of its existence.

buzz2

I don't think agnostics are cowards. I think they're pretty brave. Stupid, but brave none the less. It takes some guts to say you'd embrace an eternity of torment in hell over salvation just for the sake of living any ol' way you choose. I'd say that I'm the coward when it comes to that. I choose eternal life in heaven over eternal damnation any day. Good luck with that choice folks. Stay brave.

Og

I suppose you've done the same thing buzz. Clearly you're going to be burning in hell according to the muslim version of things. You'll be perpetually stuck in the hells of your own psyche (samsara) according to the hindus.

I assume you've picked one of the mutually exclusive world religions due to your proximity to it in your youth. But you certainly are brave to embrace an eternity in hades or any manner of other hells dreamed up by other people who have just as much reason to believe their stance as you do.

Brave and sarcastic you are. Are you catholic? If not, you're certainly going to hell since catholicism is the only proper way to be a christian (according to the pope who speaks for god). If you are a catholic, then you'll certainly be going to hell (according to the protestants) for your idolatry.

etc etc.

Again, you go and assault the people who take the stance (i.e. calling them stupid) instead of assaulting the stance they take. This is a tired old classic illustration of brainwashing. I'm sorry that you're at this point in your life and still brain washed (or at least seem to be). I'm sorry that society did such a number on you.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

buzz2

Sorry. Poor choice in structuring. I should have said the idea of, instead of the people, being stupid. Not trying to be offensive here. Honest. And no I'm not catholic. I'm Christian. Though I was raised in a catholic household.
Like you all, there were just some things that didn't appeal to me in the catholic doctrine. For example, praying to saints. I pray directly to GOD. No middleman. The Pope thing. I don't agree with that either. The whole no sex idea for the priests, causing them to become molesters. The no marriage for priests. I don't understand that one either. So no, I'm not catholic. Those things that they do are all man made rules for their priests. Not from the word of GOD. It is HE whom I choose to follow. Not some pope guy.