AB517

Me too,

I was a non-believer for most of my life, 41 out of 43 years depending on how you count. I went to mass many times with my in laws out of respect for them. I did not worry about what they thought of me, it made them happy. Even as a non believer it is not about me, it is about us, all of us.

When you put some one else above yourself for no reason but to help them you are a human. If you have to justify this by saying that we sacrifice to extend our identity to this cause, you just do not get it and this is truly sad. Einstein once said his biggest failure in life was how he treated his family.

Religion, anti-religion, believer, non-believer is unimportant in the end. The most important thing you take with you is your word and the only things you leave behind are your deeds. Did you look past, color, race, and religion to be honest and fair to another human being? Did you do this simply because it is the right thing to do with no future gain for yourself?

I have failed and carry this knowledge with me forever.

Nick Treklis

I woudln't regret it. This is the kind of thing I like about young people, they still have enough soul to do things, or not do them, out of principle. Most people are so spiritually dead by the time they reach their mid 20s all they do is go with the emotional flow of things. Don't let a relationship, or anything else stand in the way of what you know is ultimately right. It's part of what all great men were made of.

Nick Treklis

But it is about you, it's all about you. Think about it, like water flowing down a hill side you are just taking the path in life which is easiest. What's easier, to stand up for what you know to be true even if it pains you to see your relatives upset with you and potentially face the rejection of your family, or just go with the flow making those around you happy, because that's what comforts you? I think we both know the answer to that.

This reminds me of a few quotes by Jesus found in the gospels.

"Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law." Luke 12: 51

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—such a person cannot be my disciple. Luke 14: 26

"Truly I tell you, no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life." Luke 18: 29

"What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight. Luke 16: 15

The last one should be most alarming for those of you who place emotional relationships above truth. For what exactly is it that people value most, money, power, sex? Of course not, it's love!

romansh

Love and truth need not impact on (overlap) each other in any meaningful way?

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Nick Treklis

Unless it is an absolute love of truth, as opposed to emotional attachment, e.g. what humans refer to as love, they can't co-exist with eachother. One can not serve two masters.

romansh

I presume you mean 'without'

I love my wife dearly ... Could I exist without her yes. What is love? A mixture of chemical reactions, and well used neuron pathways.

I know my wife thinks I'm so romantic.

So I still not sure how truth and love need impact one another?

If I may ask ... are you married Nick?

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Nick Treklis

I mean you either value truth above all else or you don't value it at all. By becoming emotionally attached to another human, e.g. falling in love, you are automatically undermining any proclaimed love of truth because as I've already explained in the thread "Emotions", emotional attachment is delusional behavior, i.e. anti-truth.

For future references you can ask me anything you want, and no I'm not married, I'm not emotionally invested in any woman, or man. FYI, I define marriage as any long term relationship regardless of whether or not a couple confirms it with a religious ceremony or in front of a judge.

romansh

Thanks Nick,

I do value truth and understanding, above all else?
I have never had the fortune to be tested.
all the best.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

AB517

Na, you don't know me well enough to say I took the easy way. The right way is the right way, sometimes easier at others times harder. In this case it was about them over me … period. Their beliefs and feelings were more important than me on this given topic.

it is all about your last 2 words. I love them enough to show them respect.

AB517

Rom is nicer than I am. You have shown me nothing but your take on this.
If you think emotion always equals anti truth ... Thats on you.

To say total truth or no truth does not work in life, maybe in yours, but not mine.