What do you think

Gringo · 01-10-2008, 12:14 PM

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Janurary 10, 2008

Dear Friends,

My name is Gringo and although I have been a member of this forum for over a year, I have seldomed posted here. The other day a staunch atheist said to me: "Being a non-cognitivist, one is forced to look down on simple atheists."

I posted to that person, asking them what a "simple atheist" is and he hasn't responded yet. But I am asuming it means an agnostic.

I was wondering if you, as an agnostic, have encountered this attitude before or is this unique to this individual.

I am a member of an atheistic site and a fundamentalist site with an "unbeliever's" section. I find myself in the minority in both because I am not a full-fledged atheist.

I've decided to come over here more because I identify myself as an agnostic. I hope that's ok.

What's your thought on that quote in the first paragraph?

Sincerely,

Gringo

Vinterland · 01-10-2008, 02:41 PM

There are plenty of atheists that are irrational as there are irrational 'agnostics', theists, deists, and so forth. I personally ignore these types of "strong" believers because they tend to not be open to anything that disagrees with them. This doesn't go to say that they are stupid, but that they're not using their smarts in an open minded way.

As for his statement, I mostly ignorant of the term non-cognitivism, but in my dictionary it refers to morality, so I assume this was about a moral argument?

Basically, it seems to say that "Nothing is true, everything is permitted". If I gather this correctly, it is negated by the fact that it claims a truth while denying that truth does not exist. It's illogical.

Oh, and weak atheism is not synonymous with agnosticism. The former is belief whereas the latter is strictly about lack of knowledge.

Geshtinnanna · 01-11-2008, 10:48 PM

As an Atheist I get blasted wherever I go. All people are nuts.

romansh · 01-12-2008, 12:17 PM

As an Agnostic ..... I find people polite

I wonder if this intolerance towards nonbelievers is more of a USA phenomenon. What do the international nonbelievers think?

Telimaktar · 01-12-2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

As an Agnostic ..... I find people polite

I wonder if this intolerance towards nonbelievers is more of a USA phenomenon. What do the international nonbelievers think?

Mostly polite, but the fundies are not usually polite when things aren't their way.

romansh · 01-12-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gringo

The other day a staunch atheist said to me: "Being a non-cognitivist, one is forced to look down on simple atheists."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theological_noncognitivism

stumbled across this ... seems to be a subset of ignosticism
go figure

I used to think not knowing was easy, but there's so much to not know?

marmalade · 01-13-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

I used to think not knowing was easy, but there's so much to not know?

Don't be sad my young Romansh. Its an arduous path, but someday you'll be as ignorant as me. Then, you will be ready for the next step in your training... how to be an ignorant fool.

Gringo · 01-15-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

As an Agnostic ..... I find people polite

I wonder if this intolerance towards nonbelievers is more of a USA phenomenon. What do the international nonbelievers think?

Ironically, the "intolerance" I am experienceing is coming from the nonbelievers. Apparently since I am not a "strong" atheist, I deserve to be "looked down upon".

I find the "strong" atheists to be no different than the "fundies". Both sides are intolerant of others who don't agree with them. It is those of us in between who seem to be the tolerate ones.

At least, that is what I have noticed.

Geshtinnanna · 01-15-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gringo

Quote:

Originally Posted by romansh

As an Agnostic ..... I find people polite

I wonder if this intolerance towards nonbelievers is more of a USA phenomenon. What do the international nonbelievers think?

Ironically, the "intolerance" I am experienceing is coming from the nonbelievers. Apparently since I am not a "strong" atheist, I deserve to be "looked down upon".

I find the "strong" atheists to be no different than the "fundies". Both sides are intolerant of others who don't agree with them. It is those of us in between who seem to be the tolerate ones.

At least, that is what I have noticed.

Now see I can say that exact same sentence just replace non believers with Agnostics. I think what we have here is a common ground. People are intolerant. Period.

marmalade · 01-15-2008, 07:17 PM

I think a weak agnostic would tend to be tolerant because they simply say they don't know which says nothing about what other people may know. But a strong agnostic is saying that knowledge isn't possible which is a universal statement.

I can argue strongly when I'm in a critical mood, but my viewpoint always comes down to weak agnosticism. The main times that I get intolerant is around issues of rationality. Many people claim to have rational arguments when they don't. I'm beginning to learn, though, that its pointless to rationally argue against someone who thinks they're being rational(whether or not they are)... and I include myself when saying that. I've seen many people make intelligently stated rational arguments and still entirely miss the point. Rationality is most often a rationalization, a fragile veneer to the irrationality that we all try to hide. I get tired of righteousness whether religious or intellectual, whether in others or in myself.

Rationality is good in its proper place, but it takes some wisdom to use it well in a discussion.

I will say that I feel their are more tolerant people on this forum than on some atheist forums, but I don't know if agnostics in general are more tolerant than atheists. That said, neither agnostic nor atheist forums are known for their tolerance when it comes to matters of rationality. The most tolerant forums I know are psychological forums, ie forums dedicated to self-understanding rather than arguing with others.