JoeCamaro

Ok, I have been thinking about this for a while, so I decided to ask here.
Can Agnostic and/or Atheists believe in ghosts?
I used to believe and even liked ghosts stories, but believing in ghosts implies believing in Souls, dead people not going to where they should (heaven or hell) and things like that. Then if I dont believe in heaven, hell, souls, and death after life and so on, how can I believe in ghosts?
I think I shouldnt believe in them either.

What do you guys think about it?

JoeCamaro

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Og

I don't think it makes sense for an agnostic to "believe" in anything. Is there evidence? Reproducible? Gathered with proper controls? If so, then its not a question of belief. That's kind of the point of agnosticism. Evidence rules and belief is useless.

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Vinterland

Absolutely. Agnosticism is about knowledge, not belief and I don't think ghosts imply theism. However, since the only data on ghosts is typically personal accounts which ar eoften linked to sleep paralysis, it is irrational and unjustifiable to believe or deny the possbility that they exist(as the same applies to God), so yes as an atheist, you should simply not believe in them and claim your position of neutrality. That said, you can still be agnostic (know that there is no testable and reproduceable evidence for ghosts) and believe in ghosts as long as you are not convinced they exist. Belief and knowledge are often seperated in ever day life for sake of comfort or as a lazy way to form explanations. For example, it's a sad fact girls and women are raped every minute around the world and I worry deeply about my girlfriend many times a day, but if I sat around with that piece of knowledge and stewed all day I would go crazy. For the sake of my sanity and comfort I hope and take faith in the notion that she's ok when I'm not around. Stuff like this happens more than most of us think. So that's on the same curve as believing in ghosts...but I don't see them as particularly comforting unless they are like Casper.

Og, is right, an agnostic should believe in anything like that, but you still can and be agnostic. It's also on the curve of a scientist believing his scientific hypothesis (ie: Aquatic Ape) to be true, but he hasnot proven it yet.

marmalade

Most specifically, an agnostic doesn't believe nor disbelieve in God. For some(many?) agnostics, this also may include not believing or disbelieving in anything and basing everything on rationality. But there are many varieties of people claiming to be agnostic and agnostic doesn't necessarily mean the idealizing of rationality above all else.

As for me, I don't actively believe or disbelieve in ghosts. On the other hand, I had an experience as a child that I interpreted as being a ghost. I don't deny nor affirm this childhood experience. I don't assume that the world should conform to human expectations of rationality.

As its been said, the world not only is stranger than what we can imagine, but is stranger than we can imagine. I'm all for rationality, but I humbly accept that reality will never be fully contained within rationality. Although, this is no reason not to try to be as rational as possible.

I don't believe nor disbelieve in rationality either. Believing in rationality is what many atheists believe in as a replacement for believing in God. I believe in using rationality where its useful, and not using rationality where it isn't useful. For instance, when introspecting in meditation, rationality is utterly useless. There are things we can know that aren't rational.

If I had enough experiences with ghosts that conformed to some minimal degree with my sense of reality, then I'd accept that ghosts are real even if I had no rational explanation for why it should be possible. Or, at least, I'd accept ghosts as being real until further evidence proved it otherwise. I trust my experience whether or not it fits into the limits of the present understandings of science. If I started to doubt my own direct experience, then I'd really feel lost in this world.

Telimaktar

I had two ghost experiences as a child that I have never been able to explain although it might very well have been my mind playing tricks on me.

Both looked just like shadows but walking upright. One was a man the other a cat. And on both occassions they moved quickly from one room to another but when I went to look there was obviously nothing.

So that has left me with more questions than answers... maybe the wall of this padded cell can help me.

JoeCamaro

Ok, thank you for your replies.

I understand the rationality part and all. I also understand that it is not proven or anything, it might never be proven, they might never exist.

Now, the part I would like to be answer is this:

Do you think that ghosts (whether real or not) are directly linked to a soul, to life after death, heaven and hell and a superior being (god)?

Let's just imagine ghosts are proven real (which I seriously doubt), would this prove the existence of a God?

I would like personal opinios more than science facts, or studies made about the subject.

JoeCamaro

PD
When I said I believed in ghosts, I didnt mean I was looking around to see if I could see one, or willing to ride the Ecto 1, or nothing like that. I just like to listen to stories, see videos (which mostly look awfully fake and to see and listen how creative people can be).

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Telimaktar

It would seem logical to assume that they are linked to the soul, but then we need to know if those spirits haven't just always been there and when people die something else maybe happens with their spirit.

Maybe spirit being live on the surface of the sun but on a much higher frequency than we can read.

If ghosts are real it would not necessarily prove that God is real, it would just mean that ghosts are real. But I believe God (powerful entity) does exist just not like religions propose.

marmalade

I don't think anything particular at all in terms of ghosts. With a lack of clear evidence, all possibilities are equal.

The simplest explanation for the possible existence of ghosts is psychic residue or collective memories being replayed. Even if provable, this indicates nothing further. Apparitions, souls, metaphysical realms, and gods are all separate issues.

Despite my lack of conviction one way or another, I can say that I wouldn't be surprised if my conscious experience continued after I died. And if I met God, I wouldn't argue with him about why he rationally doesn't make sense and why he scientifically can't exist.

kellid

I thought being Agnostic was not considered a religion? your post is very similar to an organized religious type person. Of course you can believe in ghosts, or even pigs that fly (seriously) if you really believe it then it's real to you and that is all that matters.

xxkayxx

nicely put kellid =)

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