kellid

JoeCamaro

Well I was justwondering, remember I havent been agnostic al my life. I had a religious formation when young and I believed it. Now Im not, and I was thinking, "If god doesnt exist, then all those things, souls, heaven, hell dont exist either, then how can there be ghosts?" So now I dont belive in ghosts either, just because of logic.

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Evolution/Agnostic decals here

xxkayxx

Well, neither have i. Although i don't "believe" in ghosts and spirits, i have to admit i'm scared of them on a day to day basis, like i can't sit in a dark room by myself w/o getting scared,....pathetic, but w/e. I guess that might indicate i do believe in them on a subconscience level doesn't help i live across from a cementary either....

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing

kellid

Here is question for you....can you see air?

JoeCamaro

I cant see it but it can be explained. I can ask questions about air and get answers, unlike other things.

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Evolution/Agnostic decals here

kellid

alot of people can understand a higher power and believe in their conviction and faith just as easily as you can believe that air exists.

SirArthur

I would change the topic for "Is it possible to be Agnostic to religions but yet Spiritual?".

Being a pure Agnostic, no, but since one can't be "pure" nothing, just a bit fundamentalist on something, I would say it is well possible. Someone may believe to have a spiritual experience, thus can't say what God or Gods it may imply or not, so such person would remain Agnostic, an Agnostic-Theist but yet a branch of Agnosticism.

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We can never have an idea of what we can achieve. All we can do is follow an interrogation and see where it may lead us to.

noeticcenter

[JoeCamaro;23330]Ok, I have been thinking about this for a while, so I decided to ask here.
Can Agnostic and/or Atheists believe in ghosts?
I used to believe and even liked ghosts stories, but believing in ghosts implies believing in Souls, dead people not going to where they should (heaven or hell) and things like that. Then if I dont believe in heaven, hell, souls, and death after life and so on, how can I believe in ghosts?
I think I shouldnt believe in them either.

What do you guys think about it?

JoeCamaro.
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The Noetic Take:

There is an account on the internet of a Lama who swears he had a very vivid dream vision where white tara guided him through the kingdom of Shambhala..http://www.kalachakra.com/home/content/myth.html

Many recent publications on psychic events such as chanelling or spirit guides (SETH/Jane Robert/Oprah Book review, for example), attempt to validate the existence of 'ghosts' (meaning disembodied souls of the dead). The salient features of these claims are:

1. The 'ghosts' are invisible to electro magnetic devices with ordinary sensitivities, including human senses.

2. They as 'spirit guides' communicate with the living. It is called 'channeling". Persons specially attuned to them are called mediums.

3. They are 'familiar with' authentic past events.

4. They predict the future with appreciable reliability.

5. Reproducibility of these ghost events are reported.

Unquestionably, these are events occurring in the physical realm. As such, to be 'real' they must be physical entities with the difference that they are 'invisible' or 'dark' as opposed to 'light' entities.

Arguably, assume that they exist. Then could this be Dark Matter phenomena? For that to occur, Dark Matter atoms must yield, dark chemistries which in turn may lead to dark biology and an invisible body for every human, for the first stage of 'chanelling'. Whether astrophysical dark matter or string-theoretical axion exists or not will not be a serious issue as far as the biosphere is concerned. There could be a bio-dark-matter lurking behind sentient processes.

Ordinary Chemistry is based on electron configurations (Octet, Duet), spin and forces. Dark Matter atoms may have Dark matter Chemistry (Dark Chemistry) based on the same principles as in ordinary chemisstry. These chemistries (processes, not principles) may be governed by genetic factors, such that completion of the most stable 'invisible body' occurs only in humans. They are less stable and incomplete in animals and the least stable in plants. The Dark particles may be in differential union (spin-spin coupling) with the visible counterparts across the taxa. This seems to be supported by the differential rates of Biophoton Emissions, with plant cells giving the most and human cells giving the least rate of emission.

Empirically, a vegetative state is common to all sentience, an animal state is common to animals including humans, but the anthropic state with its MIND is unique to humans only. Experimentally the bio-photon emission from live plant cells is over 10 times more than that of human cells, with animal cells having a rate in between. Interaction of dark matter (non-electric) with visible matter (electric) is reported to emit radiations. Perhaps, this is the origin of these extremely low frequency (ELF) biophotons also. A differential distribution of these bio-dark matter across the taxa may explain the differences in the rates of emission of these ELF.

Both womb and tomb "realities' need a second look, since Bio Dark Matter and its Chemistry are possible in the biosphere.Why should there be ordinary chemistry at all? Then why not Dark Chemistry? If a non-electric, non-entropic and therefore invisible and durable body is involved, then that will be manifest in some form at all stages of human development, from the moment of conception. Decoupling of the visible body by death (say, 150 lbs of E = mc^2), leaves the invisible body with a very low energy state, possibly negative. Stupendous energy (call it Resurrection Energy), beyond currently known mundane means, will be needed to raise it to any functional level.

If so, the possibility of any paranormal phenomenon due to 'ghosts' of the dead is not credible. Alternatively, the well documented phenomena of 'channeling' as in the Seth/Jane Robert episodes or poltergeists may be due to invisible beings made of 'Dark Particles', who are already at a high energy. These may act as impersonators of the dead, and interact with the living who are willing mediums. If they impersonate, then they are not 'harmless agents' promoting human civilizations. After all, impersonation is illegal in our 'light' realm.

For more information GOOGLE for Dark Chemistry, Dark Biology, Dark Matter Chemistry, Axion Chemistry, Dark Politics, Obamania, Invisible Homo Sapiens...

References:

"Axion" has been detected - Tiny particle with no charge and negligible mass.
Nature 441, 31-32 (4 May 2006) | doi:10.1038/441031a; Published online 3 May 2006 Particle Physics: The first axion? http://www.whatsnextnetwork.com/tech...06/12/06/p4124 12/06/06
Mind Matter, Noetic Journal Vol 4 # 4, 351-360, 2003
[Nobelist Sir John Eccles Centennial Edition].
Dark Chemistry or Psychic Spin Pixel? NeuroQuantology, June 2007, Vol. 5 # 2, 197-204. Dark Matter & Dark Chemistry NeuroQuantology September 2007, Vol 5 # 3, 322-326...
noeticcenter.tripod.com
noeticcenter.tripod.com/blog/

Noetic Phil

noeticcenter

There is an account on the internet of a Lama who swears he had a very vivid dream vision where white tara guided him through the kingdom of Shambhala..http://www.kalachakra.com/home/content/myth.html

Many recent publications on psychic events such as chanelling or spirit guides (SETH/Jane Robert/Oprah Book review, for example), attempt to validate the existence of 'ghosts' (meaning disembodied souls of the dead). The salient features of these claims are:

1. The 'ghosts' are invisible to electro magnetic devices with ordinary sensitivities, including human senses.

2. They as 'spirit guides' communicate with the living. It is called 'channeling". Persons specially attuned to them are called mediums.

3. They are 'familiar with' authentic past events.

4. They predict the future with appreciable reliability.

5. Reproducibility of these ghost events are reported.

Unquestionably, these are events occurring in the physical realm. As such, to be 'real' they must be physical entities with the difference that they are 'invisible' or 'dark' as opposed to 'light' entities.

Arguably, assume that they exist. Then could this be Dark Matter phenomena? For that to occur, Dark Matter atoms must yield, dark chemistries which in turn may lead to dark biology and an invisible body for every human, for the first stage of 'chanelling'. Whether astrophysical dark matter or string-theoretical axion exists or not will not be a serious issue as far as the biosphere is concerned. There could be a bio-dark-matter lurking behind sentient processes.

Ordinary Chemistry is based on electron configurations (Octet, Duet), spin and forces. Dark Matter atoms may have Dark matter Chemistry (Dark Chemistry) based on the same principles as in ordinary chemisstry. These chemistries (processes, not principles) may be governed by genetic factors, such that completion of the most stable 'invisible body' occurs only in humans. They are less stable and incomplete in animals and the least stable in plants. The Dark particles may be in differential union (spin-spin coupling) with the visible counterparts across the taxa. This seems to be supported by the differential rates of Biophoton Emissions, with plant cells giving the most and human cells giving the least rate of emission.

Empirically, a vegetative state is common to all sentience, an animal state is common to animals including humans, but the anthropic state with its MIND is unique to humans only. Experimentally the bio-photon emission from live plant cells is over 10 times more than that of human cells, with animal cells having a rate in between. Interaction of dark matter (non-electric) with visible matter (electric) is reported to emit radiations. Perhaps, this is the origin of these extremely low frequency (ELF) biophotons also. A differential distribution of these bio-dark matter across the taxa may explain the differences in the rates of emission of these ELF.

Both womb and tomb "realities' need a second look, since Bio Dark Matter and its Chemistry are possible in the biosphere.Why should there be ordinary chemistry at all? Then why not Dark Chemistry? If a non-electric, non-entropic and therefore invisible and durable body is involved, then that will be manifest in some form at all stages of human development, from the moment of conception. Decoupling of the visible body by death (say, 150 lbs of E = mc^2), leaves the invisible body with a very low energy state, possibly negative. Stupendous energy (call it Resurrection Energy), beyond currently known mundane means, will be needed to raise it to any functional level.

If so, the possibility of any paranormal phenomenon due to 'ghosts' of the dead is not credible. Alternatively, the well documented phenomena of 'channeling' as in the Seth/Jane Robert episodes or poltergeists may be due to invisible beings made of 'Dark Particles', who are already at a high energy. These may act as impersonators of the dead, and interact with the living who are willing mediums. If they impersonate, then they are not 'harmless agents' promoting human civilizations. After all, impersonation is illegal in our 'light' realm.

For more information GOOGLE for Dark Chemistry, Dark Biology, Dark Matter Chemistry, Axion Chemistry, Dark Politics, Obamania, Invisible Homo Sapiens...

References:

"Axion" has been detected - Tiny particle with no charge and negligible mass.
Nature 441, 31-32 (4 May 2006) | doi:10.1038/441031a; Published online 3 May 2006 Particle Physics: The first axion? http://www.whatsnextnetwork.com/tech...06/12/06/p4124 12/06/06
Mind Matter, Noetic Journal Vol 4 # 4, 351-360, 2003
[Nobelist Sir John Eccles Centennial Edition].
Dark Chemistry or Psychic Spin Pixel? NeuroQuantology, June 2007, Vol. 5 # 2, 197-204. Dark Matter & Dark Chemistry NeuroQuantology September 2007, Vol 5 # 3, 322-326...
noeticcenter.tripod.com
noeticcenter.tripod.com/blog/