marmalade

I'm thinking that I agree with you here. Something like panentheism is the only version of a God that makes sense to me and a God who simultaneously seems worthy of serious inquiry.

I don't normally think of myself as an agnostic Christian, but I am attracted to the idea of it just because it challenges simplistic definitions of agnosticism and Christianity. What Og says about Christianity makes sense to me, but I don't think he is claiming to be Christian. There is only one person around here that has claimed to be agnostic Christian and that is AB. The Christian writer Tom Harpur might be an agnostic Christian. Also, maybe the authors Freke and Gandy. There is a book I've seen about agnostic Christianity, but I haven't read it.

Agnostic Christianity would be related to a non-literal interpretation of the Christ story. You can experience the Christ story as having deep life-transforming meaning and yet feel no need to declare dogmatic belief in a theistic God. But I'm sure agnostic Christianity could mean many different things depending on one's relationship to Christianity.

These are good questions. To understand this further, we'd have to have a discussion about depth psychology and comparative mythology. Its a complex matter. I'd love to discuss it, but it would only clutter up and complicate this thread.

Science is peer-reviewed though and politics does have great influence on it. Science isn't neutral even if it idealizes neutrality. Science can only approximate neutrality over generations of research and questioning that weeds out the false.

That is a very good point. What is the point of it all besides making interesting fodder for discussions like this one? These kinds of questions are being seriously considered in the field of Integral theory. Integral theory would be a whole other discussion.

marmalade

I don't define theism and atheism that way. I don't see agnosticism as incompatible with either. Its just dealing with a whole different matter. Theism and atheism are about believing God exists, believing God doesn't exist, or simply lacking belief in God's existence. Agnosticism simply has nothing to do with belief and is instead about knowledge.

You're probably correct, but this doesn't mean that the label of 'agnostic Christian' is false even if it is often falsely used.

I agree that many atheists maybe even a majority aren't strong-atheists. Nonetheless, quite likely the majority of people using the term(either in describing themselves or others) do mean strong-atheism. I really don't know, but I suppose someone could take a poll.

How atheism is used on an atheist or agnostic forum probably has very little to do with common useage. Meanings of words are context-dependendent and one context that must be considered is who one is trying to communicate with. My earlier posts in this thread was in response to atheism being used in a general sense. I often don't care how someone is using a word as long as the make clear what is their defintion.

Part of me agrees with you about the importance of specific definitions, but another part of me could really care less about such labels. I was happy to discover the distinction of weak atheism because it fits me better than agnosticism, but I've heard other defintions of agnosticism that do fit me. The words aren't important. Its the meaning behind the words that matters. As long as that is communicated, then I'm satisfied.

However, if shared precise definitions is extremely important to you, then I'll try to use these words in this manner.

romansh

Dobri Utra (well for me anyway)

Hi renderator

how do you answer the question "is there life on other planets?"
I use a a similar thought process for deciding whether god exists.

I think it is unlikely but possible that life does not exist somewhere else in this universe. I don't have good data one way or the other, other than other peoples' learned speculations.

So at end of the day, I have to consider myself agnostic regarding life elsewhere in the universe.... I simply don't have the evidence to come to a rational conclusion.

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Geshtinnanna

Well I was wondering how to participate in this thread seeing I am a Satanist/Atheist.
After viewing boards like this, the pagan ones and the Christian ones, I don't want to be the monkey in the cage flinging poop. Truthfully all of your actions and high opinions of yourself make it funny. I see the exact same sentences and thoughts and phrases almost word for word from each group. Really quite funny and almost gives me dejavu when I post from site to site.

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romansh

Geshtie .... you in a bad mood today?

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Geshtinnanna

Ha. Can you tell? I just get annoyed seeing the same thing said three different ways in three different sites. That and I am so getting tired of rude people. Makes me wanna eat their babies.

Also, I am recovering from a foot injury that has kept me off my feet for days and I HAVE THINGS TO DO!!!!

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romansh

I agree wholeheartedly regarding rude people ...

I suspect the repetion is the nature of the beast.
I'm willing to bet those before (at least) me have gone through this before.

I think it's just nice to be able to debate with people (some more than others).


I'd give you a foot rub if that would help .... Have a nice day (so to speak )

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Lecter

The only rubbing she'll get is by me, and me only, thank you very much!

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I'm only laughing on the outside / My smile is just skin deep / If you could see inside I'm really crying / You might join me for a weep.

romansh

oops!

sorry I thought you were just good friends.

in that case please do the foot rubbing soon ......

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

romansh

Hi V and r .... I must admit I don't understand too much of Og's methods though I do like his end points ... they are not necessarily mine, but that is OK

What I understand of Og's post is the universe is made up of matter and energy. So far so good. That's all there is, so if there is god it is made out of the same parts of the universe as we are. A theistic god is separate from us and therefore is not of this universe ..... and as such does not exist.

We would have to ask Og if I got it right?

I'm sorry, every time read Og's post I get a slightly different iterpretation???

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams