romansh

Hi Vinterland
these are true for me:
I do not believe in god ............ an atheist
I do not disbelieve in god .........a theist or deist

other than very very confused what am I.......

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Vinterland

Naturally you're confused because you're affirming two contradictory statements. Look again; you cannot doubt God does not exist and then not believe in God. Antonyms of disbelieve, doubt, skepticism, include: certainty, definitness, etc. You are saying that: A)I do not believe in god b)I am certain God exists(I do not disbelieve in God).

__________________
And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

Wulfric

You know, both of those are true of me, too.

It would seem I'm so terribly confused as well

Damn

greywolf90

mabey you should try to rephrase it, because it does sound contradicting to me also. it's like saying " i do not believe in god, but i do not not believe in god." not not believe = believe. im just saying that you might want to think of a better definition of what you believe.

__________________
"is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"- poe

romansh

Sorry V .... I think you are wrong

I do not disbelieve god exists
is not the same as
I disbelieve god does not exist

the latter means I believe god exists
the former is not necessarily true of the believing in god.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

greywolf90

can you explain how "not disbelieve" is not the same as "believe"?

__________________
"is all that we see or seem
but a dream within a dream?"- poe

romansh

similar for the weak and strong atheist definitions

I believe god does not exist ...... strong; no doubt
I do not believe god exists ..........weak....
the latter includes the person who does not know

similarly for the weak and strong theist positions
but with the double negatives

I disbelieve god does not exist ......... no doubt; strong theist
I do not disbelieve god exists ........... true for theist and say people who don't know

it's bit of a (boolean) word game??

hope it helps .... my head aches after these debates..

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

romansh

just to answer your question a bit more directly

if I say "I don't disbelieve in god" ..... I have not actually told you what I actually believe (or disbelieve)..... all you know that god is a possible belief.

:headache:

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Vinterland

It it is false to designate a slot for "people who don't know" becaue clearly every answer is a belief with some hint of conviction. A person who answers "I don't know" to the question of "Do you believe in God" has failed to comprehend the question. A person who does not doubt the existence of God - "I do not disbelieve god exists" - is a person who has theistic beliuef. I ask you to look at your statements:
They are precisely the same. Again, allow me to substitute the word disbelief with 'doubt'. The former says this - "I do not doubt God exists" and the latter - "I doubt God does not exist. " You agree the latter is theism, and the former says it in different words; say it with me, " I don't doubt God exists". It's a statement that expresses both a belief and a sense of certainty that God does exist. Both statements have a high level of conviction inthem.

__________________
And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

Vinterland

I should have doen this ealier: I ask you to elaborate on what you mean by "I don't disbelieve in god". Specifically, what about God? It's existence, right?

__________________
And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”