Vinterland

I read a lot of posts on this board, and I would like to briefly explain something many agnostics appear to misunderstand about agnosticism. First, it is not a middle ground between the beliefs of atheism and theism. Agnosticism deals with knowledge rather than belief. Another misunderstanding many of you have is what atheism and theism are. They are by definition:

"theism (the doctrine or belief in the existence of a God or gods)"
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=theist

and obviously atheism is by definition a lack of belief in God(s).

prefix "a" means without

There is nothing stated in those definitions that one must be convicted of their beliefs to be a theist/atheists, therefore it is a fact that being an a theist or atheist is not conditional on how firm they hold their beliefs.

The final bit I'd like to add is that every self-described agnostic is a theist or atheist because every agnostic believes or doesn't believe in God. Agnosticism is the very useful concept we choose to apply to our belief. Don't be afraid to properly describe yourself as an agnostic-atheist only because Christian's, and some atheists themselves reinforce the notion that agnosticism and atheism are seperate entities. Also, as a Deist here on the board has demonstrated, agnostic-theism is alive and well.

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And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

Geshtinnanna

Agnostics misunderstanding Agnosticism. I have to say I lol'd a bit.

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Vinterland

Sad but true.

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And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

Gettin' In Tune

I agree. Agnosticism is a stance on knowledge and not a belief. I think many atheist describe themselves as agnostics, since it is a more socially acceptable term...

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"But to find the truth we need imagination and skepticism both. We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact."--C.Sagan

Astreja

It is possible to be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist. I'm actually both of the above.

I have no verifiable knowledge of gods and doubt my ability to confirm any findings, so I consider myself agnostic.

However, I believe that gods are technically possible (hence, 'theist'),

Unless said gods are omnipotent, omnipresent and singular (hence, 'atheist').

pseudonous

Vinterland,

You yourself seem to be a bit confused as to what an agnostic is. I recommend you read the post "Definition of an Agnostic"; Just the first post should clear things up.

A theist believes in god. An agnostic does not believe in god.

This is simply not true. Huxley coined the term when thinking about how to describe his position on the topic of religious beliefs.

Gettin' In Tune

What is the difference between an agnostic who does not believe in god and an atheist?

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"But to find the truth we need imagination and skepticism both. We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact."--C.Sagan

pseudonous

If you define an atheist as someone who lacks a belief in god than an agnostic is an atheist. However, many buddists, ancestor worshipers, superstitious people, etc... are also atheists under this definition. This was the original meaning of the word as used by religious people who did not see a big difference between these groups.

If you define atheist as someone who believes, "god does not exist" then the difference is that agnostics do not believe "god does not exist" while an atheist believes "god does not exist". Most self proclaimed atheists fall under this definition, which is why Huxley coined the term agnosticism.

Vinterland

Wrong, but try again. I know that is why Hunxley coined the term, but your failure to make the distinction between atheism and anti-theism leads to your profound misunderstanding of agnosticism.

No, that person is an agnostic-atheist.


Yet another baseless assertion. Most atheists certainly do not deny the existence of God.

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And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

WilliamBlue

I was just wondering how you can make this statement? Did you take a pole or are you basing this on some research you saw? If so can we have a link, please.

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When you dance with an elephant it's up to you to not get stepped on.
How can we be so arrogant and egotistical to believe that the whole Universe was created just for us?