romansh

Another way of looking at this. Consider someone saying:

“I think god might exist.”

Using the definition lacks belief in god the person is an atheist.
How?
This person must entertain the possibility that god does not exist, as they only believe god might exist.
Therefore the person lacks belief in god (at least some).
Try replacing word “might” with “probably” and possibly even “must”, the person is still an atheist. The only way a person can escape being an atheist is by being a theist. I suppose this is what V’s point is?
But it is only the definition that catches practically the whole spectrum of beliefs.
Change the definition to believes god does not exist this person is no longer an atheist.

If anyone is interested adding their definitions of some commonly used words on this site, see the thread below. Try doing without using a dictionary or looking at other peoples replies. It could be amusing, especially if you have thick skin.

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Vinterland

You tell me; seriously. A Nontheist... same thing as atheism. Atheism has a number of definitions, not any more than "agnostic" and much less than theism.
But, strong atheism is irrational to a good extent. MOST atheists know this; the ones that are not strong atheists. To me, it seems irrational to believe that strong-atheism should be the context in which the word 'atheism' is used. Atheists who know they are atheists do not use it that way, why should atheists like you and the majority on this forum use it any differently?
Sorry, I'm not in the mood right now.

I appreciate your supportve message. I've two or three positive ones before this one, but you are the first person to agree with me! (GIT doesn't count because he changed his mind again the post after).

On forums such as "foru.ms", iidb.org and various others, LOTS of people already understand and accept the message I've been trying to get across here for months now. It really does bring down barriers between people who just seem to be bickering with each other just for having different labels. It brings greater understanding.

Thanks for your post and I hope to see you around the forum.

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And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

romansh

Could a deist or a theist say they lack disbelief in a god?

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Katnip89

[quote=romansh;20599]That is a good thread, I'll have to keep reading up on it. thanks for the link

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"People laugh at me for being different, and I laugh at everyone because they're all the same." - Anon

The guilt of man shall be his downfall, and Honesty shall right his wrongs - Me, Myself, and I

If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you'll be amazed at the results.
George S. Patton

Derbonic

[quote=Katnip89;20634]Thanks fella's. By the way Katnip89... How did you end up with a picture of my car for an avatar? Actualy mine is silver. Oh, and its snowing out. GTG.

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You can do it your own way, long as its done just how I say.~the hypocrit

Vinterland

As I've shown, degree of certainty isn't necessary to be an atheist just as it isn't to be a theist. I think the solution is rather simple: when you refer to atheism, specifict what atheism you mean - weak atheism "I don't believe in God" or strong- atheism "I believe God doesn't exist". Those are the only two real significant answers. The generalisation should be avoided completely, imo, because others who begin to coverse may not understand and this potentially causes much confusion.
Hm...That would describe a strong-atheist, right?
Yes, in that sense of "I believe in one God less" or similar. Technically they are still theists.

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And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

romansh

So a person who lacks disbelief in god could be either a theist (on a technicality) or an atheist but is unlikely to be an agnostic?

If my logic is correct, this is why I am uncomfortable with the weak definition of atheist.

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Vinterland

Correct, by technicality.
I understand it is too broad. So, "Doesn't believe in a God" and "belives there is no God" are acceptable to you, right?

__________________
And on we walked. Suddenly we heard a voice crying, "This is the sea. This is the deep sea. This is the vast and mighty sea." And when we reached the voice it was a man whose back was turned to the sea, and at his ear he held a shell, listening to its murmur.
And my soul said, "Let us pass on. He is the realist, who turns his back on the whole he cannot grasp, and busies himself with a fragment."
—Gibran Khalil Gibran, “The Greater Sea.”

romansh

I think definitions in general are to some extent personal.

Definitions are by definition what somebody defines them to be ....

I agree, using the weak definition of athiest, .... I am one.
My problem, and it is mine, I don't feel like an atheist.

I think my beliefs and the way I reason are reconcilable at least with my understanding of what is an agnostic.

Deists, theists, atheists (weak and strong) and for that matter agnostics can, as far as I'm concerned, can use whatever definitions for themselves, so long as they make themselves clear. What is important is their ideas, thoughts and concepts.....good or bad.

I try not to point out someone is wrong .... for it could easily me that's wrong. I just ask questions and express an opinion when asked (there exceptions when I ask a question).

I intentionally did not answer your question directly.

But I hoped my answer helped.

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Gettin' In Tune

Vinterland,

Do you still believe in the resurrection of jesus?

Are you still unable to define your god? Can you define your god coherently?

Your friend,

GIT.

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"But to find the truth we need imagination and skepticism both. We will not be afraid to speculate, but we will be careful to distinguish speculation from fact."--C.Sagan