Can agnostics be spiritual?

nanners86 · 09-14-2006, 02:35 PM

First of all I don't like the word "spiritual", I think it is "mental", seriously, because it is all scientific. But how can we have those experiences? I dunno if any of this makes sense, but if anyone has any ideas that would be great.

Grant · 09-14-2006, 04:47 PM

i just officially became confused :P j/p i think i get what your saying...

well i dont see any logical way we could have spirituality without some kind of supreme being... when u think about it, nothing means anything without some kind of supreme being. emotions mean nothing... theyre just chemical reactions (or some would say an illusion), any sense of purpose or importance is worthless... its depressing thinking from that perspective. i think spirituality would be "against" agnosticism. if youve had spiritual experiences, i don thtink you'd still be agnostic. so i think spirituality and agnosticism are relatively separated.

LilOne1989 · 09-14-2006, 05:29 PM

I'm not sure that feeling spirtually is so much the right word more than just having a very strong emontional feeling about something. Anytime you feel very strongly about something it can be looked at as being "spiritual". I would just go with your feelings and do what you feel is right because it is what "you feel is right", not necessarily what a higher being or whatever guides you to. In a way we are our own higher power for many of the things in our lives with and/or without religion.

I hope that makes sense, hard to concentrate with two kids yelling under your feet (literally). But at least they are having fun.

nanners86 · 09-14-2006, 05:30 PM

oh, I would never assume so Grant. That is good that you came to that conclusion on your own,

I do think that emotions are chemical reactions that is why I said "mental" and some call it spiritual.

nanners86 · 09-14-2006, 05:31 PM

Lilone, I totally understand and I do agree that we are our higher power.

**George** · 09-14-2006, 07:06 PM

To answer the question bluntly... yes and no

See for me, I don't believe in spirits and souls and all the mumbo jumbo. But I don't speak for every agnostic. Again.... an agnostic is a person that believes you can neither prove nor disprove God. They are not atheists or theists who think they already know.

So some agnostics can find other ways of being spiritual. Some agnostics believe that we do have souls they will just willingly admit that doesn't necessarily mean there is or isn't a God. It just means that they believe there may be a life force behind life itself.

Again Grant,
I have to disagree with most of what you said. You're looking at it from the perspective of someone who needs a supreme deity to give them purpose. You see it as a sad meaningless existance without a deity because you don't know how to live without that. Emotions are not meaningless. True in scientific terms they are just chemical reactions but in our social environment they mean a great deal. Try telling a greaving mother of her dead child emotions are meaningless. I've seen and felt emotions cause actual physical pain. But then what is pain? It's just eletrical messages sent to your brain and the way your brain interprets them. But is pain meaningless?

Not needing to know that there is some deity watching over all 6 billion of us listening to every one of our prayers but wondering why ours isn't answered is liberating. Not depressing. It gives you a sense of control over your life. I know what you're getting at though. You're talking about when times get tough and you can't turn to God. Hard to imagine what you'd do if you couldn't turn to God isn't it?

But that's because that's the way you were taught. That's what you are used to. It's like waking up from the matrix and finding out that there is no spoon. Congratulations... you are now truly responsible for your actions. Now what are you going to do with that newfound responsibility?

Change is tough. But once you start looking at it not as a problem, but as an opportunity to fix the problem you'll be better off. Each person has his or her own journey though. Some people just aren't cut out to be agnostic just like some aren't cut out to go to Harvard. If you're not emotionally capable of living with the possibility that you may not have a supernatural babysitter to help you through life then I am the last one to fault anyone who holds on to that belief.

nanners86 · 09-14-2006, 07:28 PM

I don't think we have souls I think everything is chemical, so I guess what I am asking is how can I experience this chemical nirvana (without chemicals. LOL) naturally?

Grant · 09-14-2006, 07:40 PM

Replies in bold.

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Originally Posted by George

To answer the question bluntly... yes and no

Again Grant,
I have to disagree with most of what you said. You're looking at it from the perspective of someone who needs a supreme deity to give them purpose. You see it as a sad meaningless existance without a deity because you don't know how to live without that. Emotions are not meaningless. True in scientific terms they are just chemical reactions but in our social environment they mean a great deal. Try telling a greaving mother of her dead child emotions are meaningless. I've seen and felt emotions cause actual physical pain. But then what is pain? It's just eletrical messages sent to your brain and the way your brain interprets them. But is pain meaningless?

I don't understand how anything has any purpose without some sort of order. Emotions keep us busy but theres no meaning to their existance. The only reason they exist is because somewhere along the geneology, one of our ancestors had a kid with a little mutation. Yes, we have a sense of urgency to attend to them. The sense of urgency doesn't mean they have purpose. Again, its just a mutation. Try telling a greiving mother her emotions mean nothing. Well I don't try to tell her that. In short, I don't understand how we have a purpose if we're equivelant to pre-biotic soup. How is it not a contradiction to believe there's no reason for our existance, yet times and situations have appointed purpose. I'm not saying they don't necessarily. I just don't undersatnd how. Can you explain for me?

Not needing to know that there is some deity watching over all 6 billion of us listening to every one of our prayers but wondering why ours isn't answered is liberating. Not depressing. It gives you a sense of control over your life. I know what you're getting at though. You're talking about when times get tough and you can't turn to God. Hard to imagine what you'd do if you couldn't turn to God isn't it?

But that's because that's the way you were taught. That's what you are used to. It's like waking up from the matrix and finding out that there is no spoon. Congratulations... you are now truly responsible for your actions. Now what are you going to do with that newfound responsibility?

Wow. I'm actually not used to asking for God's guidance. I've been worrying about what He asks of us for about a month now. Christianity doesn't say not to take responsibility for your actions. The fact that the God of the Bible provides for us doesn't mean you don't take responsability. I'm curious as to what broght you to the conclusoin that Christians aren't responsible for their actions.

Change is tough. But once you start looking at it not as a problem, but as an opportunity to fix the problem you'll be better off. Each person has his or her own journey though. Some people just aren't cut out to be agnostic just like some aren't cut out to go to Harvard. If you're not emotionally capable of living with the possibility that you may not have a supernatural babysitter to help you through life then I am the last one to fault anyone who holds on to that belief.

You've got me backwards, man. However, I perfectly agree with what you said- "Change is tough. But once you start looking at it not as a problem, but as an opportunity to fix the problem you'll be better off." In my experiences, it is a lot better after you get over the consequences of change, you're better off.

**George** · 09-14-2006, 09:55 PM

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