This may sound like a childish rant, but...

Nora54 · 03-01-2007, 03:17 PM

...bear with me, please.

I was raised as a catholic and was struggling with my beliefs for a while, and after i graduated from catholic school and went to a public high school, i became aware of agnosticism and liked it.

but the problem is, my grandmother is a widow and an extrememly devout catholic and whenever i'm visiting her, she always seems to sneak in seemingly random comments about catholicism. just to give an example, some years ago, we took her with us to go visit my aunt and uncle. i had asked everyone to please look for my MP3 player because i thought i lost it. well, later it turned up in the car, and my grandmother's first words were "give a prayer of thanks to (whatever saint is the patron of lost things)." it's fine with me if she believes strongly in something, but to imbue it into the most menial aspects of others' lives irks me. i'm sure she knows i'm not a devout catholic, but i'm sure the last thing she'd ever expect is that i'm agnostic.

i've told my parents that i consider myself an agnostic, and they reluctantly said they respect my choice, but whenever we as a family come across something that a devout catholic wouldn't think as acceptable (i.e: yes, we are a family that belches openly, when there's no company of course. i love the informal feeling that gives to my house. but once in a while my mom or dad would throw in "what would your grandmother say about that?" or something, and it makes me feel really deflated.) whenever i'm with her or even talking to my parents and her name comes up, i feel like i'm walking on eggshells, so to speak.

there is no possible way that i could tell my grandmother that i consider myself an agnostic. her heart would either stop, or she'd try to exorcise me. believe me, if this woman was a male, she's be the pope.

so my question is, how do i handle these things? i love my grandmother and the last thing i want to be is disrespectful, but i'm at the end of my rope.

OMG · 03-01-2007, 03:41 PM

Why are you afraid to tell her? Im sure she's old enough and seen enough things for you being an agnostic not shake her up too much. Sounds like she'd just think your confused and pray for you.
But I would agree its not healthy for your mind for you to hear things that promote the reality of god and heaven and all that stuff.
The only way to not let your mind hear it is to not let your ears hear it. So you'll either have to ask her to try to stop the blatant references, or to not go around her that much.
But I would definity agree its a good idea to not let religious doctrine get into your head at all (which is almost impossible unless your a recluse). Ive found that even getting less of it gives your mind a chance to clear, and reality start to focus, and allow you to trust in common sense, etc; instead of having to ovverride common sense and logic soo much so you can believe in god and heaven and all that stuff.
So in the end, i guess you dont really have to tell your grandmother anything, just try to get a bit less "religious mental pollution" in every part of your life until your mind is stronger.

Nora54 · 03-01-2007, 03:52 PM

thanks for the advice.
i'm afraid to tell my grandmother i'm agnostic, not because of her reaction, but my parents'. they hold my grandmother on this high pedestal, so to speak, and some kind of grave consequence will ensue if i tell her and then if she tells my parents that i told her. for the next five months, i'm still dependant on them, unfortunately, so i have to go along with it.
it's not really possible that i spend less time around her because we only live ten minutes away from eachother and she's kind of dependent on us.
i'm sure she's seen a lot that shakes her, but i'm kind of like the "black sheep" of my family. all eight of my cousins (who are in college) go to church, etc. and she knows that. i'm sure she expects me to do the same (which i won't). i don't know...sometimes i just settle with myself by telling myself that i'll graduate high school in june and i'll (for the most part) be away from all the "religious mental pollution." (good way to put it, by the way). i guess i just want some people's takes on how to deal with it until then.

**The An-Jel** · 03-02-2007, 03:33 PM

Don't tell her. I mean if you are an agnostic what they say doesn't really effect you in any real way right. To them it's gospel (like most in my family kinda sorta.) You love your family and when they get into their whole religious speel say I don't know cause of your belief (agnostic system as you see it in yourself) you really aren't sure about anything. It's an easy copout and saves face through ignorance. If grandma asks about Jesus say "Grandma I Love You thats what I think about Jesus!" She might be quick but lets hope she isn't that quick.

Catholics usually know the deal anyway.

**George** · 03-02-2007, 04:28 PM

I don't really see any reason to tell her any time soon either. Or at elast no rush to.

It's only 5 months and in the mean time you can feel free to come here and vent or just discuss your beliefs with us. Once you are on your own you can tell them. But do it the moment you are able to so that they won't accuse you of allowing ourside influences to change you or simply the fact that you're on your own in itself.

Might be a bad analogy and I'm not calling your family "oppressors" because frankly I don't know them. But as with any situation where people are oppressed the smart ones go along with the rules of the oppressors as much as they can stand it and live to fight another day. Others let ideology get the best of them, proclaim their independence, and perish. Often times along with anyone and everything they loved.

The point being if it's not worth the backlash or trials you will face by telling them now, don't.

Nora54 · 03-02-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George

But as with any situation where people are oppressed the smart ones go along with the rules of the oppressors as much as they can stand it and live to fight another day. Others let ideology get the best of them, proclaim their independence, and perish. Often times along with anyone and everything they loved.

The point being if it's not worth the backlash or trials you will face by telling them now, don't.

good point. i'm not calling myself opressed per se, but yeah, it would avoid a lot of aggrivation to just not get up on my soapbox at the present time.
thanks!

**The An-Jel** · 03-03-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The An-Jel

Don't tell her. I mean if you are an agnostic what they say doesn't really effect you in any real way right. To them it's gospel (like most in my family kinda sorta.) You love your family and when they get into their whole religious speel say I don't know cause of your belief (agnostic system as you see it in yourself) you really aren't sure about anything. It's an easy copout and saves face through ignorance. If grandma asks about Jesus say "Grandma I Love You thats what I think about Jesus!" She might be quick but lets hope she isn't that quick.

Catholics usually know the deal anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by George

I don't really see any reason to tell her any time soon either. Or at elast no rush to.

It's only 5 months and in the mean time you can feel free to come here and vent or just discuss your beliefs with us. Once you are on your own you can tell them. But do it the moment you are able to so that they won't accuse you of allowing ourside influences to change you or simply the fact that you're on your own in itself.

Might be a bad analogy and I'm not calling your family "oppressors" because frankly I don't know them. But as with any situation where people are oppressed the smart ones go along with the rules of the oppressors as much as they can stand it and live to fight another day. Others let ideology get the best of them, proclaim their independence, and perish. Often times along with anyone and everything they loved.

The point being if it's not worth the backlash or trials you will face by telling them now, don't.

Wow it's all about dodging the question? I like Mexican food myself, bring that!

**debdodd** · 03-04-2007, 12:04 PM

Nora 54 ..... I agree with the others ..... don't tell her. I don't know how she is but I can tell you from experience ..... old people, for the most part, have little to do and they contemplate death, after all, they assume they are closer to dying than a younger person. They tend to focus on religion and where they are going to end up, i.e. heaven or hell.

I get a kick out of my Dad .. he was always a decent guy, but he also had his fair share of having fun but now .... now, he sends me all these Jesus loves me crappy emails and if I send them on I will get my wish at 10PM ..... I don't even bother reading them .... a quick delete and I'm done. I suggest with your Grandmother, just be grateful that she's still around to love you and take it is stride .... let's face it Granmother's and Grandkids don't have much in common so for her, religion may be the only common denominator that she shares with you. I'll bet she doesn't even know what an MP3 player is.

Remember, this is your belief (agnostic) not hers. If you tell her it will just upset her and she will double her efforts on trying to bring you back into the arms of Jesus. Why give an old lady stress? Let her have her beliefs, it gives her something to do on Sunday. Try doing non religious things with her. I know the pace is alot slower with older people and their interest are not the same as ours but try and do something with her once in a while. If you two have other topics to talk about she won't talk religion with you, she'll be too busy talking about "remember the time we did such and such" .... this system works. I'll take diversion over conversion tactics any day! As for me ... I use avoidance with my parents ... when I was younger I loved to screw with their minds. When ever I would attempt to talk with them about my beliefs, I'd get some stupid comments "are you on drugs" ... finally one day ... I told her yes, I was on acid ... I thought it was funny ... she didn't.

I have a 16 year old son who is really into building a Shinto shrine right now ... not to long ago he wanted to be something else .... he'll find his path at his own pace ... that's what it's all about ... the journey .... not the destination.

I hope you find peace with yourself over this. Certain parts of our being doesn't need to be shouted from the roof tops .... such as ...I'm an agnostic .... I lost my virginity last night ....I'm a whatever .... this is your personal space (your beliefs, etc) and no one needs to know your personal space business. You share your personal space with like minded people and just as you don't like people trying to force you into embrace Catholisim you don't need to make them "see the light" either. I find that until I know if someone else is agnostic, atheist .... I don't let them know what my beliefs are. It makes life alot more simple.....

Nora54 · 03-04-2007, 12:17 PM

debdodd...thanks a lot, your advice is very sound.
i agree that i shouldn't tell her, it would avoid a lot of stress for all involved. i just always found the irony of me being born into a family of devout catholics and then turning agnostic...oh, well. i won't make waves, i agree.
thanks again!

**debdodd** · 03-04-2007, 12:49 PM

welcome to our world!!! (she says with a hearty laugh) I have been agnostic for a looonnnnnggggg time and their is no easy way to share it with anyone. Just find like minded people and talk with them ... that's the easiest way .... well sometimes .... it's the nature of most people to have their own opinion about things .... coffee with cream .... why drink coffee .... just drink the cream with a little coffee .... coffee with sugar ... why not sugar with a little coffee ... you see what I'm getting at ... it's human nature to have our own opinions. Be a "bobble-head" just nod your head when people say things you don't agree with .... that is unless you're in a mood where you want to argue with that person .... 'cause that is what it will end up being an arguement .... sometimes you can have a "discussion" with someone .... but if they are zealots .... save your breath ...