Agnostic Forums
  Show Threads  Show Posts

Agnostic Forums - Discuss Agnosticism

Go Back   Agnostic Forums > General Discussions > The Water Cooler

The Water Cooler Off-Topic laid back no stress discussions about anything not related to other forum sections.



Want These Ads To Go Away? Become A Premium Member. Click here to see how...

Reply
Bookmark this thread at ThreadSoup: BookMark This Thread On ThreadSoup.com! Add it!
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2007, 07:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
jeffsstuff.com
Junior Member
 
jeffsstuff.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 20
jeffsstuff.com is on a distinguished road
Default books to suggest

I am new here and don't know if this is the proper place for this threat but I just wanted to suggest a couple books that I've read lately. They seem appropriate for several reasons.

The books are: "Innumeracy", and "A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper".

Both are by John Allen Paulos.

These aren't new books (I think they were written in the 80s) but they are still extremely relevant today. They deal with the average Americans lack of understanding of math, probability, statistics and logic skills and how it leads to faulty arguments and faulty claims. Either of these books is approachable by the mathematically inclined and those who dread mathematics.

Just my $0.02
-Jeff
__________________
'The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history."

-Robert Heinlein
jeffsstuff.com is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2007, 08:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
The An-Jel
Anti-Hero

 
The An-Jel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,465
The An-Jel has much to be proud ofThe An-Jel has much to be proud ofThe An-Jel has much to be proud ofThe An-Jel has much to be proud of
Default

Why would an agnostic speak in mathematical terms jeff?
__________________
"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment
The An-Jel is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2007, 08:31 PM   #3 (permalink)
jeffsstuff.com
Junior Member
 
jeffsstuff.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 20
jeffsstuff.com is on a distinguished road
Default

Actually, the book's author, in one of his books describes himself as a "devout agnostic".

More importantly, religious groups (and others) often missuse mathematics either intentionally or through their misunderstanding to cloud issues or to misrepresent facts.

Both of these books are very interesting for that reason. The only caveat I have is that in these two books plus the third one I read (beyond Innumeracy) he uses many of the same examples.

It all boils down to, if you're willing to play with the numbers, you can make anything sound true. My favorite example is one where he has where given the relative rarity of the disease he shows that if you take a test that is accurate 99% of the time (99% of the time is positive when you have the disease and 99% of the time it is negative when you don't have the disease) and a doctor told you you have the disease, how should you feel? The bottom line is after some simple mathematics, it turns out that the chance of you actually having the disease is something like 9%.

As to why an agnostic would speak in mathematical terms, everything is in no way mathematical. The trouble comes when people don't understand mathematics (or more correctly how to apply it).

In any case, I find the books very interesting. It gives you an interesting perspective on how numbers can be misrepresented depending on the interests of those presenting them.

-Jeff
__________________
'The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history."

-Robert Heinlein

Last edited by jeffsstuff.com : 02-24-2007 at 11:40 PM.
jeffsstuff.com is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2007, 04:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
brig
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 33
brig is on a distinguished road
Default

Jeff, a couple of my Uni professors wrote a paper about common statistical fallacies, based on the example of a jury and a court case. If you are interested, you can find it here:

http://www.dcs.qmul.ac.uk/~norman/pa...ry_fallacy.pdf

It's probably not for those who aren't that mathematically inclined though.
brig is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2007, 04:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
jeffsstuff.com
Junior Member
 
jeffsstuff.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 20
jeffsstuff.com is on a distinguished road
Default

I'll take a look at it. I have some math background (my degrees in computer science and economics so I've had some calculus, linear algebra, etc).

Thanks,
-Jeff
__________________
'The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history."

-Robert Heinlein
jeffsstuff.com is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What books besides the Bible have you read that changed your life. George Holy Texts & Dogma 60 03-08-2008 08:40 AM


» User Settings
User Name:

Password:

Remember Me?
» Quick Register
User Name:


Password:


Confirm Password


Email


Confirm Email


Check to Agree with forum rules

» Sponsored Links

» Links We Love
Tactical Gun Forums

NiceComeback.com

myspacelayouts

Coupons Codes & Bargains

Deaths In Iraq


Take AF With You
Feed Icon   RSS  RSS-1   RSS-2 XML  JS


» Sponsored Links


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0
Copyright © 2006 - 2007 The Jibber Network. All Rights Reserved.