Agnostic and social class

[romansh]

Dawkins cites a couple studies in his The God Delusion by The Royal Society and the US National Academy of Science.
eg of the fellows of the society who responded:
3.3% of the fellows felt strongly there was a personal god
78.8% strongly disagreed

Apparently the results of the USNAS were similar according to Dawkins.

Also cited was Michael Shermer's How We Believe:
Dawkins' interpretation of Shermer

Originally Posted by Dawkins

... was the discovery that religiosity is indeed negatively correlated with education (more highly educated people are less likely to be to be religious). Religiosity is also negatively correlated with interest in science and (strongly) with political liberalism.

http://www.michaelshermer.com/how-we-believe/reviews/

[Bill]

Originally Posted by romansh

Dawkins cites a couple studies in his The God Delusion by The Royal Society and the US National Academy of Science.
eg of the fellows of the society who responded:
3.3% of the fellows felt strongly there was a personal god
78.8% strongly disagreed

Apparently the results of the USNAS were similar according to Dawkins.

Also cited was Michael Shermer's How We Believe:
Dawkins' interpretation of Shermer



http://www.michaelshermer.com/how-we-believe/reviews/

There have, indeed, been a number of studies to show what correlation, if any, there is between education and having belief in one form of deity or another.

I see no causal link, however, between education and social class.

Intelligence has sometimes been the spur that allows one to move up in society, but lack of it rarely seems to be the sole cause of moving to a lower social status.

Therefore the question of faith and social status appears to be still an open issue.

[romansh]

Originally Posted by Bill

I see no causal link, however, between education and social class.

In between jobs I've had the opportunity to teach science in two schools in the UK.
The first was a strange anachronism in time ... it was a mixture of comprehensive, secondary modern and grammar schools. Tha latter two were being phased out with time. Essentially it was two adjoining schools with a hole cut in the fence. The second was a King Edwards school.

I would say that the quality of education with income was evident self evident. Having said that the correlation would have not been 1.000

Originally Posted by Bill

Therefore the question of faith and social status appears to be still an open issue.

Don't disagree - that was my point in my first point in this thread.

http://www.educationforum.co.uk/soci...ssachieve3.htm

just an afterthought
It would be nice if there was a causal link between education and social class, but for the purposes of the argument there just has to be a correlation.

[Aaron]

I'm guessing middle class. I think that a middle class upbringing and lifestyle breeds a more sceptical attitude.

[Aeca]

Middle class right here.Agnostic :P

[moralmonkey]

There was mention of a study in the FFRF newsletter a few months back which correlated nonbelief with higher education levels. If I find it I will post it. Doesn't seem to apply to me. I'm a drunk and a college dropout. In that higher educational levels can be class related, then yes there is a connection. But as far as just high income and higher social class, well why don't you ask Pat Robertson and George W. Bush.

[UnReAL]

Originally Posted by Aaron

I'm guessing middle class. I think that a middle class upbringing and lifestyle breeds a more sceptical attitude.

Being middle class as well, I can certainly agree with this point. If I were poor I'd probably be atheist ("No way can god be real if life is this shitty..."), & if I were rich I might be a theist ("Perhaps god has blessed me...").

So I can see I how this line of reasoning would lead someone with a seemingly average or mediocre lifestyle to become agnostic ("Life isn't bad, but it doesn't seem good either, is god real?")

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Seth

Or possibly the people that are more likely to give themselves over to a faith are naturally less concerned about achieving happiness through a particular career or ambition, and would be more likely to spend their time, effort and money on things other than academic education.

Are you saying "Ignorance is bliss"?

[Bill]

I can see that lack of education and social class were closely linked up until the last century.

There are a number of studies which suggest the genetic pool of different social classes differ, but this may be indicative of the difficulty of moving out of one's social class of birth, and not the reason why people belong to differing classes.

In recent studies from England, data shows that poor scholastic achievement is higher in Social Classes III and IV than in I and II - that is, the working class children of that country do worse in modern compulsory education than the middle and upper classes.

The IQ distribution, however, seems to be fairly consistent over all four classes.

It would seem to me that the social mores of each class influence the children of that class in how much effort they put into learning, and how much importance achieving high education standards are.

Thus, middle and upper class children, encouraged by parents and peers, strive harder to become educated, and thereby achieve higher standards.

In England, I can see a distinct correlation between class, education and, thereby, the likelihood of being a person of faith.

In America, the situation is far more complex. The explosion in higher education opportunities 20 years ago has made college education available to all members of society, but the college drop out rate has increased from 1 student in 5 to about 1 in 3 nowadays. The increase in drop out comes from the increased number of lower social class students.

So - the tie between education and social class is stronger than I suspected, and therefore there is also a link between status and belief in a deity.

I suspect that for the lower educated person, their deity is a god of the gaps, explaining all the things in this university that cannot be otherwise explained.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by UnReAL

Being middle class as well, I can certainly agree with this point. If I were poor I'd probably be atheist ("No way can god be real if life is this shitty..."), & if I were rich I might be a theist ("Perhaps god has blessed me...").

So I can see I how this line of reasoning would lead someone with a seemingly average or mediocre lifestyle to become agnostic ("Life isn't bad, but it doesn't seem good either, is god real?")

Pretty much along my line of thinking on middle class.

My observation of the people I've known from all walks of life is that the least wealthy seem to have the strongest, most spiritual faith in the bible - my assumption is because that is all the hope there is.

On the other end of the spectrum, some of the wealthiest poeple I've known seem to either be atheist "I've achieved all of this on my own" or weak theist "Yes, I'm fortunate to have these things and I'm willing to give some credit to the man upstairs".