Omniscience Beats Deism?

[JonathanElliot]

I've been pondering a thought raised by something here the other day.

I think IF there is a g0d, and if that g0d is all-knowing, then Deism is not true.
By Deism, I mean the kind of Deism that says there is a theistic g0d, but she set up the universe and has gone away, and takes no interest in us.
If that g0d is all-knowing, then she is still aware of us.

That's the only point I'm trying to establish. Sure, one could argue that the suffering in this world shows that g0d doesn't care about us, or did a poor job of creating. All I'm trying to say here is that if g0d is all-knowing then g0d knows intimately what is going on with humans, and therefore that particular form of Deism doesn't work.

Thoughts?

[romansh]

Jonathan
My point of view
A theistic god is pretty well defined.
By and large pretty much discountable if it were not for the proviso "works in mysterious ways" and other provisos to similar effect.

The deistic god you describe is indistinguishable from a deistic god with a really bad sense of humour. Ascribing properties to a deistic god for me is pointless. By defnition, almost, we are on are own.

Having said that deism makes as much sense as strong atheism. Which is to say, makes a whole bunch more sense than believing in a personal god.
rom

[UnReAL]

I thought deism only stated that it's the belief in a god not defined by any particular religion. It's not a question of what the god knows since one could assume that any god would be omniscient anyway. It's a question of whether or not we know the god is there.

[romansh]

Originally Posted by UnReAL

I thought deism only stated that it's the belief in a god not defined by any particular religion. It's not a question of what the god knows since one could assume that any god would be omniscient anyway. It's a question of whether or not we know the god is there.

No doubt there many definitions but a general one is a non personal god, eg does not answer prayers, does not intervene etc.

if you are truly desperate:
http://deism.com/

[UnReAL]

Originally Posted by romansh

No doubt there many definitions but a general one is a non personal god, eg does not answer prayers, does not intervene etc.

if you are truly desperate:
http://deism.com/

Haha reading the definition they provide, this belief sounds like the monotheistic version of Wicca. I don't see it as being any more or less rational than the rest of Theistic beliefs. It almost seems like a stepping stone towards Ignosticism since they're admitting that their god hasn't been defined.

[shanoxilt]

Originally Posted by UnReAL

Haha reading the definition they provide, this belief sounds like the monotheistic version of Wicca. I don't see it as being any more or less rational than the rest of Theistic beliefs. It almost seems like a stepping stone towards Ignosticism since they're admitting that their god hasn't been defined.

Personally, I think deists are trapped within religious assumptions despite the fact that many deists loathe religion. It seems that they assume a deity with no evidence to posit one in the first place. They have merely removed the cultural baggage of mainstream deities.

[NewPath]

Originally Posted by shanoxilt

Personally, I think deists are trapped within religious assumptions despite the fact that many deists loathe religion. It seems that they assume a deity with no evidence to posit one in the first place. They have merely removed the cultural baggage of mainstream deities.

Ditto...

They've removed "all" the baggage. It's as if a deity created a mess then washed his/her hands of it all and walked away, never to be heard from again.

Now, come to think of it, that makes sense!

[shanoxilt]

Originally Posted by NewPath

Ditto...
They've removed "all" the baggage. It's as if a deity created a mess then washed his/her hands of it all and walked away, never to be heard from again.
Now, come to think of it, that makes sense!

As I understand it, not all deists believe that the Deus has abandoned the universe. Most believe that their god is an impersonal being who tinkers with the universe rather than moralize about human trifles.

[NewPath]

Originally Posted by shanoxilt

As I understand it, not all deists believe that the Deus has abandoned the universe. Most believe that their god is an impersonal being who tinkers with the universe rather than moralize about human trifles.

That would seem like there is a god(s) who is playing with humanity like a child would play with "army men." Maybe laughing at the violence, love, confusion...a game to play, possibly. Intrigued about what man will think to do next, maybe placing bets!

[UnReAL]

Originally Posted by NewPath

That would seem like there is a god(s) who is playing with humanity like a child would play with "army men." Maybe laughing at the violence, love, confusion...a game to play, possibly. Intrigued about what man will think to do next, maybe placing bets!

Yeah, in some ways it's similar to Apathetic Agnosticism, except they hold an active belief in a god that's undefined.