moorehurst

Seeing as the General Religion board has been getting into a right old two and eight over the death penalty I thought it would be worth moving the topic into the correct forum for debating purposes.

So here is the gist. Should the state execute those deemed by the state to be guilty of capital crimes. These include Ted Bundy, the Rosenbergs, Saddam Hussein and Gary Gilmore. Innocent people have died, guilty people still live and vice versa.

The death penalty has been abolished in all member states of the European Union (although opinion polls suggest that it still has massive support). In the US it is legal.

As a wet English liberal I am clearly against it and I view those in favour as wrong. Let's start the ball rolling.

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"It's the bally ballyness of it all that makes it all so bally bally."

Bertie Wooster.

debdodd

we've had this discussion many times ... depends on the crime .... pedophiles get to use the express lane for lethal injection in my opinion .... crimes involving torture ... slow death penalty ... there are those people who do not deserve to live not even if it means spending more money to prosecute them and go thru the appeals ... they deserve to die as slow of a death as they caused their victims and just as painfully ... don't ask me what the threshold for that decision ... I've already given my opinion of the death penalty ... this is just for the newbies ...

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

duck

Let me preface the point that I am wholly in favor of the death penalty. There are just a few crimes that the only price that can be paid to society is death. Deb outlined a few of them above. I will only add that treason to the state in which lives were lost due to that treason is another, as clearly outlined in our constitution. I also believe that desertion during battle is another.

Having said that, there is a problem with the death penalty: It just costs too much. Mandatory appeals, judicial reviews, etc., draw the process out for too long a time. Having inmates sit on death row for years on end awaiting final judgment of these cases constitutes, in my humble opinion, cruel and unusual punishment. Our constitution requires that all justice be fair and speedy. This is not met in far too many cases.

I have no good solution to the issue, either.

Discuss away, folks.

moorehurst

Oh, Debdodd, I apologise for being a newbie, please forgive me, please?

However, if I could tentatively (and I blame myself for not joining the forum earlier) suggest that it is not always possible to prove guilt and some countries (including my own in the past) have executed innocent people even after numerous appeals would it not be better to incarcerate offenders for life?

__________________
"It's the bally ballyness of it all that makes it all so bally bally."

Bertie Wooster.

debdodd

forgiveness granted

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

sisterX

Well in my opinion (which also happens to be the islamic opinion), if a crime is committed against society as a whole ie drug dealing, prostitution (another discussion for another time) treason etc, capital punishment is necessary not only to protect and preserve society but also as a form of deterent. However, if a crime is committed against an individual, then the individual has a right to forgive the criminal and suspend punishment. Similarly, i believe if someone a commits murder, it is up to the family of the victim to decide whether they want the criminal to be put to death or be fined blood money. If however the murderer is stil seen a a danger to society they should be locked up for life. That is my take on the subject.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran

moorehurst

Wow! So the little Irish chap who sells pot for a tenner an eighth in my local pub should be executed?

What about the people who buy it?

__________________
"It's the bally ballyness of it all that makes it all so bally bally."

Bertie Wooster.

debdodd

nope ... the little Irish chap should be given my address ... just kidding. I think that violent crime requires violent consequences. I don't think a bunch of guys smoking reefer to get thru life constitutes prison ... no more than the guy that drowns his sorrows in booze ... just another coping mechanism ...

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

moorehurst

I guess that makes you more tolerant than SisterX...but then there are few people less tolerant than SisterX...

However do you think drugs and alcohol are purely a coping mechanism rather than something fun to do on a Saturday night? If so, what are they trying to cope with?

__________________
"It's the bally ballyness of it all that makes it all so bally bally."

Bertie Wooster.

sisterX

Lol lol, moorehurst. I failed to point out they would not be excecuted for that or anything other than murder, rape, and maybe treason. I just used drug dealing and prostitution as examples of crimes against society but they would not be punished in such a way. Lol, sorry.

__________________
"But as for me (I believe) that He is Allah, my Lord, and I shall associate none as partner with my Lord." Surah Al-Kahf verse 38. Holy Quran