moorehurst

But isn't the debate in the US about what to do with the people who are already there? Surely it isn't realistic to expect them to go to their country of origin and apply to go back to the US. Isn't it better to give them an amnesty to enable them to register their jobs so they can join a union, earn proper money and pay proper taxes?

__________________
"It's the bally ballyness of it all that makes it all so bally bally."

Bertie Wooster.

debdodd

Absolutely ... but what about the criminals and the Mexican gang members that have snuck in? If there was an easy answer that would be great ... Bush is just buying time till his term is up .... there is so much fighting and behind the scenes BS in American politics right now it's a fright. Until all the old men die and we get fresh meat in Congress it is going to continue.

At present it's what we have to work with and we have to ride out the storm ... all of history has it's ups and downs ... this just happens to be one of ours ...

What do you think would have happened if the US had of stayed out of WWII? You all would be speaking German now is how I see it. Instead of damning the US all the time ... how about people realize ... we are not infallible, especially our leaders and they certainly don't reflect what all Americans think or do. We've had good, bad and mediocre presidents ... Bush's time is at an end and hopefully the next president will do a better job.

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

Jacob

George W. Bush should be remembered as one of the worst presidents ever. His government's deregulation policies have shifted too much power to the large corporations; especially the ones concerning the media. They are crushing all the competition in their path.

One day Americans will realize that true freedom of speech has been taken from them. If these policies are allowed to continue, George Orwell's fictional predictions will become reality in America.

Jacob

jaej

And the biggest problem is that many americans don't care that their freedoms are being taken away. I have a sneaking suspicion that many americans would give up a lot more than free speech for the idea of 'safety' or 'security'.

__________________
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Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate

Jacob

George W. Bush isn't worth being remembered. He has just been a puppet manipulated by the likes of Karl Rove. Of course, it is very difficult to prove sub rosa affairs, but many are beginning to suspect that the 9/11 tragedy was an inside job. Check out: www.911truth.org

Probability_Amplitude

If america is willing to bankrupt other nations' industries through globalisation, it must be willing to pay for the consequences. If we can have globalisation of funds and corporations, we should also have a globalisation of labour forces.

Anything else would be double standards.

__________________
I am free, at last.

viz

I'm from the UK and I can't help but be amazed that President Bush is even in politics. He is not intelligent at all, he can't even read out names properly, recite speaches, it is quite embarresing for the US. Here for all Tony Blair's faults, I will always remember the 1997 to present government for stable economic growth and redistribution of income (minimum wage). It was capitalism with the hint of socialism needed to make an economy great for all.

Anyway Bush, at the time Afganistan and Iraq seemed like good ideas in the wake of 9/11 but I guess now they can be seen as what happens when we act too hastily. On the economy the US now has a record deficit and I'm guessing the effect of that will be felt only when he leaves office.

It is quite sad that America is moving towards a more Christian Conservative society which Dawkins explains, it seems that now the UK is now more secular than the US. Being religious in UK politics will make you unelectable, being religious in US politics will get you in.

Kevin

Months after posting this thread, I'm convinced that there will be a generally unfavorable view towards the Bush administration.

And the U.S. is supposed to be a secular government, but a majority of the population is Christian and unfortunately the line between church and state seems to be getting erased. And unfortunately logical people are ridiculed in this country.

NotConvinced

Well I'm not convinced, 50 years from now who knows what the hell history will make of things. In the very least someone could hold out and say there would be a mixed opinion of the Bush administration.

People still dispute what kind of government the US was built on, though a slim majority do believe it was built on Christian principles, which is a little scary. What's more scary is that close to 76% of our population considers itself christian. But even though less than 15% are agnostic/atheist/non-religious/secular, you have to admit some break throughs have been made in the recent past over prayer in school, displays of the ten commandments in court houses, the display of Nativity scenes on federal property.

Hah get this, was looking through a few poll results...
While 47% of Americans claim that Atheists are more accepted now than in the past, 62% of Americans say they would absolutely REFUSE to vote for an atheist for President. It's kinda skewed though, the results for "atheists" are a lot more harsh than "non-religious." Like there's a 52% unfavorable attitude toward atheists, while there's a 33% unfavorable toward non-religious. Hell, 50% of non-christians view atheists in a negative light. But telling someone their God doesn't exist sure would piss them off more than someone telling them they don't know if God exists.

So as far as logical people being ridiculed in this country....I'd say logic points to being agnostic over athiest, achieving you much less ridicule.

Kevin

While I'm still agnostic, I can clearly understand why atheists are atheists. It wouldn't surprise me if I become one within the next couple years or so.

Also, atheists' "beliefs" (or non-beliefs) are built more on logical and rational thought than those of an average Christian.