buzz2

Which would you rather have? Extreme liberal, moderate liberal, or slightly liberal? That's what you get with Obama, Clinton, or McCain. I don't like either one of them.
I don't like Obama because of his bigotry. Don't like "The Hilldabeast" because of her socialized healthcare plan. Don't like McCain because he's not being totally honest about his policies and his beliefs, judging from his past record of liberalism. Trying to pass himself off as a conservative.
No one even knows what Obama is really about. What has he accomplished in his short time in the senate? Nothing. He's the most liberal person in the senate. Even worse than Kennedy. That's BAD!!
As for Hillary,.. her record speaks for itself. Just look at her past. When she was helping to run her husband's presidency, she helped to screw that up. Like "HillaryCare". What a JOKE that was. I don't want "socialized medicine". I want to be able to choose which Dr. I'm going to get care from. Not the government making that choice for me. Under her plan, if I go and get a Dr. on my own and pay for it out of my own pocket, both the Dr. and I would be prosecuted for breaking the law. Socialized healthcare doesn't work. Just ask the Canadians.
As for McCain,.. look at the McCain/Feingold law. Or the McCain/Kennedy education law. Too darn liberal for me. He likes to make nicey nice with the libs on the other side of the aisle. Not very conservative. Now he's trying to pass himself off as conservative though. So, you can't trust any of them to be honest. Although I think McCain would be the best choice when it comes to national defense. That's it.
So, whom would yall choose and why?
Maybe one of you could tell me what all the fuss is about with Obama. Why is he so appealing? 'Cause the way I see it, he's just be another Jimmy Carter weak kneed, coward. An appeaser to the tyrants of the world. Totally ineffective. And Hillary,.. Well, she just is plain scary.
Maybe I'll go with a third party candidate. If there is one. Hopefully a Libertarian.

shadowind

i'm not voting,
mccain i don't trust
hillary dosn't seem right, but alright
obama sounds cool

__________________
remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

Og

bigotry?

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
Satchitananda - True Being, Pure Consciousness, and Bliss
Tat Tvam Asi - Thou art That.
You & I, no distinction.
Mettā & Namaste

Astreja

*ahem* I got X-rays and an MRI for an injured knee, for free.

I don't have to pay for checkups.

My partner spent a week in the hospital for a cholecystectomy and treatment of pancreatitis, and it didn't cost her a cent.

No problems at our end.

duck

It is my understanding that the horror story tales of long wait for treatments and surgeries is just that....stories.

Most nations that have adopted this have had moderate to good success with it as I understand.

__________________
Religion: The ultimate definition of verisimilitude

romansh

Now be honest Astreja ... it's not all smelling like roses up here.
When our hospitals are full in BC

we send our patients to Washington (or even worse Alberta)... but you are right, the patient still does not pay (at least not much).

So Buzz, the point is don't fear what you don't know.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

romansh

Can't speak for Winnipeg ... But in BC, if it's serious then it's OK. If it's a hip replacement or similar then it can get bad. Medications can be expensive. All I can say is that the care my son got was excellent.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Astreja

As I see it, the #1 benefit of socialized medicine is this: If the system is running even moderately well, the prospect of someone dying for lack of money is all but eliminated. Occasionally someone does slip through the cracks, if the admissions department of a busy emergency department is having a bad night; but such cases are uncommon. And slip-ups like that happen in a pay-your-own-way medical system, too.

Some things are not covered in the standard package, including dentistry, eye care and massage therapy. There is a subsidy program for prescriptions, but generally we have to buy our own meds. Physiotherapy is covered in Manitoba, but only when performed in a hospital setting.

And, as romansh points out, popular types of non-emergency surgery do have long waiting lists.

But overall, I like the system and do not want it replaced with a commercial one.

buzz2

I guess what bothers me about Canadain health care or what I termed socialized healthcare is the higher taxes to cover it. What Hillary is proposing is going to jack our taxes up even higher than they are now. I don't want to pay for someone going to the emergency room for a cold (like alot of the illegal aliens do). I don't think it's a fair system, where I have to pay for everyone else.

Og

Nothing is free. Someone pays. The money comes from taxes. I do not want to pay money so that a smoker can get a lung transplant or so that someone who smashed their head while on Ecstasy can get an MRI. Those people have the funds and should pay for that crap themselves. I am a much lower risk and have a much lower need for health care than many other groups because I am a responsible individual.

Socialized systems ONLY harm the responsible people. They lower the bar. Charity breeds social problems. This is the lesson to learn from Mother Teressa's work (see Christopher Hitchens' comments on her). Teach them to fish instead of giving them fish. Put the money into EDUCATION which is about the only social program worth having (second most valuable social program is defense... IN THAT ORDER). It allows for all those other social program problems to be solved.

Schools should be F'in cathedrals and teachers should be paid their weight in gold and should be held to extremely high standards. The buisness buildings should be brought down low and the spires at the schools should be legislated as the highest point allowed to build to in any given city.

I have no problems with my insurance company. I can get MRIs and other such expensive procedures just as you can and its paid for as part of my work compensation plan as a highly educated employee. But I also don't drink and drive, smoke, do drugs, or take part in other risky behaviors. And damn it, I refuse to pay for those that do.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
Satchitananda - True Being, Pure Consciousness, and Bliss
Tat Tvam Asi - Thou art That.
You & I, no distinction.
Mettā & Namaste