xxkayxx

Perhaps...
About homosexuals, it isn't a "disease" and it DEFINATELY doesn't mean that individual is confused about their sexuality. I have various relatives that are bi or gay, or lesbian, and they seem less confused about things than "normal" people. I'll admit i DO have my prejudices, but i don't constantly rant and rave about them....it does no good really. You have to realize nothing can make you a "good" or "bad" person Buzz, for everyone is but a mix of good and bad traits.

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing

romansh

Watching the States from just across the border ... I have to agree with you about the "one party" state. But for a different reason.
1) you really have conservatives and very conservatives to vote for.
2) the choices that you have to vote for, are a reflection of the vast majority of voters.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Skepticologist

I'm not real sure, nor do I have the energy to reconstruct, how this thread meandered in the tired old diatribes against homosexuals. Just like many other issues, e.g. drugs, embryonic stem cell research, the neoconservatives among us turn a blind eye to reality in favor of their deluded view of what the world ought to be like.

Well, get over it. Reality doesn't, nor ever will, conform itself to any particular political ideal. You can decry homosexuality or anything else you wish didn't exist, but the fact is, it does; and it's not going away.

As a heterosexual male, I don't fully understand the mechanism by which an individual becomes a homosexual, but I also don't fully understand what it means to be an African-American, or a female, in today's society. What I do understand is that they exist and I can either learn how to incorporate them into my scheme of things, or I can choose to remain ignorant.

It's painfully obvious which choice some of the posters to this thread have made.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

debdodd

buddy you missed all the excitement (said sarcastically) over that past 3 or so weeks ....

we've had a few very opinionated christians here recently ....
yes the thread digressed ..... it only happens with the hard core nontolerant christians that are so vehement and of course that gets the hackles rising in a couple of us .....

__________________
"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

Nick Treklis

romansh,

This is the most reasonable thing you've said since I've been here. Government is inherently coercive and damaging to the individual on any level. Only a stateless society can provide the basis for a truly free society. Any form of taxation or system that allows people to control the value of your money implies that the system owns you personally.

Og

I agree with all but the characterization of my comments as illogical. TANSTAAFL!! There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Pay for what you need. Government should be an accountant that provides border security and infrastructure where required. They should be where standardizing and public safety is regulated (i.e. building inspectors and the FDA).

There is NO SUCH THING as "free" ANYTHING. Someone always pays. Less government intervention is always a good thing.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

romansh

For the record ... I don't necessarily believe a goverment has to provide services, but it should make sure that a certain minimum standard is available to all its constituents, not just the wealthy.

For example should the goverment make sure help is available for a low-to-middle income family with a special needs child?

"There's no free lunch", and? The whole point is to provide a nutritious lunch cost effective way to those of us who are economically disinfrachised. Yes I hear you regarding teaching someone to fish, but in the meantime they still need fish to eat.

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Og

There's a fine balance where charity facilitates the poor (as you said about teaching to fish). I'm not advocating we make some radical change in the government. It's just that most people think that there is such a thing as a concept like "free health care for all." It's not free. That's my point.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

Skepticologist

Have you noticed that hard-core fundamentalists rarely stick around these kinds of forums for more than a couple of weeks? It's quite obvious that that don't log on with open minds. I really think getting online and doing battle with those of us who insist on reason and logic as the basis for our beliefs is sort of a badge of courage for them. I can just see them going to Sunday bible class and regaling their less-strident peers with their fearless exploits among us unbelievers. Once that's accomplished, and they feel good about taking a stand in the name of their inane religious beliefs and, more importantly, their peers admire them for doing so, it's "Mission Accomplished" (remember that one from 2003?) and off to bigger and better things like voting neo-conservative Neanderthals into office to extend the dark ages of the Bush administration for another 4-8 years.

After having debated more than my share of these fundamentalist zealots over the years, I've become convinced it's a complete and total waste of my time. They have a formula for what's right and wrong, good and bad, black and white, etc. ad nauseum; and deep thought, reason and logic, is anathema to them. I've never experienced even one of them even expressing an understanding of countervailing viewpoints.

To quote a biblical parable, it's like "casting pearls before swine".

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

romansh

Hi Skept ... I know what you mean .... but we all have our motivations.
In my intro I promised a month ..... seven months later .. I'm still here.
My wife still thinks I spend way too much time here. She's probably right ... I need to get a life.

Regarding the fundamentalists ... we are not going to convert them now. I think it is like you 'said', they are here as a test of faith. The question for me is, can we plant a seed of doubt. And if so, what is the best tool ..... a bit of nurture or a base ball bat? ..

all the best

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams