romansh

Does this mean you have no free will?

Does this mean you are incapable of change?

Or does it mean you just don't want to change?

What would Christ say?

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Jodou1

He would have to WANT to hange his opinion on the matter, much like most people's view on religion. If he truly wished to have his preconceptions challenged, it could be as simple as making a gay friend online.

I am sure he thinks my life somewhat alien and dramatic like on television, in reality it is so dull and plain it could cause tears. I work in a normal ole restaurant, the majority of my friends are heterosexuals, and even the bars I frequent are just the normal kind most of the time.

I'm not sure where your negative view of homosexuality stems from if not from religion Buzz, but I beg you to not base your views of us off of what you see on T.V. or in some parade. There are inevitably people who fit into the stereotypes, but also many who do not. I've never watched a Girls Gone Wild commercial and assumed that is what the entire heterosexual society was like. If you would like to address the issues or concerns you have about the homosexual community, I'd be happy to have an open and friendly dialog with you on the matter.

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“Infidelity does not consist in believing or in disbelieving: it consists in professing to believe what one does not believe.”-Thomas Paine

xexon

Let me tell you folks about the political processes of this country.

Your vote doesn't count. Not really.

You are given a choice of "pre-approved" candidates. Approved by those who really run the country. Israeli friendly zionists and big business. Same as its been for the past hundred years or so.

Democracy still works well at every level except the federal level. Here, other people control the show. You are herded, milked, and slaughtered by these people.

Haven't you had enough yet?



x

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Destroyer of Worlds

greywolf90

it may seem like you can't change, but i think you can. a couple years ago, i believed i would live and die a christian. a couple years ago, i did not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. of course, we cannot change our oppinion on a whim, but things that we learn can change our oppinion. i think this is ultimately what we are doing with you. i am not trying to make you an agnostic or make you have the same oppinions as me. i am just trying to pass what i have learned to you.

you said that displaying homosexuality in public was infringing on you and your family's freedom to not see it. this is absurd. according to your logic, christians are infringing on me when they hand out bibles at my school, when they wear crosses and jesus shirts, when they bring up god or jesus in conversation, and when they pray in public. i don't want to know they are christian. they need to to keep it in church and out of the public right? they are infringing on me right? this is the same as what you say about gays. do you see now how absurd it is? christians are not doing anything they are not free to do, just like gays are not doing anything they are not free to do.

also you made a comment about teachers shouldn't be able to teach kids that being gay is ok. so what if you were a teacher? would you teach a class of middle schoolers that being gay is not normal? what if there is a gay student in your class? would you teach the rest of the class that this 13 year old boy or girl is an abomination? sure, they may already be confused and struggling enough with their own feelings, but heck, why not alienate them even more from their peers? go ahead and pile on that mountain of insecurities and make them into a social stigma while you're at it. now imagine that young student to be your son or daughter. have i reached your christian compassion yet? i think teaching kids that being gay is ok is exactly what needs to be done.

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"for there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."- Hamlet

buzz2

OK... I'll open up a whole 'nother can of worms here. Yes, I think the "gays" are infringing on us all. How about the "gay marriage" debate. It's wrong! Marriage is defined as a union between a "man and a woman". Why do they need to marry? They're only gonna clog up divorce courts even more than they are now. It won't work. Why create new laws just to accommodate them? That's not equal rights. That's MORE rights. The "hate crimes law".
Can we execute a person harder for a hate crime after he kills some "gay" guy? NO. The killer will be just as dead as any other woman killer. What's the use? As for being a teacher and teaching that "gay" is OK? I wouldn't even bring it up. And if asked by a student about it, I'd tell them to go ask their parents. Not my job. Just as it's not the job of the schools to be teaching my kids about that. Now, if one of my own kids asked me about it, I'd tell them what I thought about it and leave it at that. I'd let them know however, that if they thought they were having thoughts toward that lifestyle that I disagreed with that choice but, that I will always love them and respect them in that decision, and that would never change. But, I can't and won't change how I feel about the whole subject. It's an abomination in the eyes of the Lord. They would have to understand that as well. I won't water down my faith. Right is right, wrong is wrong. Period. End of topic.

duck

Buzz, if you have ever been a teacher, you would know that topics like this aren't something that can be avoided. Bullies beating up a kid because he is gay is an issue that you would have to deal with. Can't be avoided.

You can't turn a blind eye to it. What if you had a kid being constantly harassed by other kids in the room because of this and disrupting the learning environment of all the children? Do you remove the gay kid to restore order? No, you can't. You deal with the realities and put and end to the bullying.

Your conviction in your faith is somewhat commendable, but the rigidity is what caused me to quietly walk away from mine.

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Religion: The ultimate definition of verisimilitude

buzz2

Duck,
Of course you can't and shouldn't allow ANY type of bullying or harassment to exist or persist in or out of the classroom. I wouldn't or couldn't condone such behavior. EVER. I would deal with the bully. Not having been a teacher, I don't know the restraints you all are under, so I don't know how you are allowed to deal with those type of idiots. So, I can't say how I would deal with it under those restrictions. I tend to be very harsh when it comes to that stuff. I equate it to maybe how the coaches used to do it back when I was in school. No sparing the rod here. Then I'd deal with the parents afterward. I do not and will not tolerate hazing of any sort to any person. Regardless of who or what they are. Surprised? I do treat EVERYONE with some degree of respect and kindness. Live and let live. Just don't get into my space. Cuz then we'd have to have a talk about it and whom ever, wouldn't like that.

shadowind

entity A and Entity B comes together to form one entity under the law. I've heard that was the legal definition of marrige, i might be wrong though.

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remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

Jodou1

Okay Buzz, let me wiegh in.

As far as marriage goes, there are over one thousand laws that are automatically assumed in a marriage. One little certificate carrys a lot of importance. We work and pay taxes exactly how everyone else does.

Now imagine I am 55 years old, I have been with the same man for thirty years much like you and your wife are together. We go on vacation, take in some sights, and decide to go to the beach one day. The beach was incredible and really helped us unwind but now it's getting late and we need to get back to our hotel. Now if you will, picture that we get in a very bad car accident on the way home. I am fine but my partner is rushed away in an ambulance. Inside the hospital, far from our home I am informed that my partner is not going to make it.

I will not be allowed to see him before he dies. I am not considered family by law, and we are far from home. What's worse imagine you yourself being the one in the hospital bed, and being told that your wife is not allowed in to see you, you're going to die surrounded by strangers and not get to see the love of your life before you go.

It has nothing to do with "MORE rights" as you put it. We want to be able to live our lives without constant reminders and hinderance because of who we are. I know that it's hard for you to wrap your mind around the fact that we are indeed born this way, with a physical attraction to men and not women, but living by what is natural to us shouldn't be cause for animosity from the rest of the world.

As to hate crimes I do understand your point to a degree, but also try to understand that whereas a normal criminal may have outside factors as to why he attacked a certain person/murdered them, being gay can be the only reason some people need to attack you.

Look at it like this, we don't want a special right to marry, we want the right to live our lives naturally the same as you. For you that's a wife, for me it isn't.

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“Infidelity does not consist in believing or in disbelieving: it consists in professing to believe what one does not believe.”-Thomas Paine

duck

It looks as if the issue of gay marriage is pretty much settled in California. I actually applaud this outcome. The legislature supported the change, the governator isn't going to oppose, and the state supreme court had made its decision.

Not much else to say on the issue.

The basis for opposition is a house of cards, largely, and this will certainly be a major step forward for the constitutionally guaranteed equal protection under the law for all citizens.

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Religion: The ultimate definition of verisimilitude