Aaron

I discovered tonight that I am a criminal. I am a criminal because I made the mistake of taking my wife and grandaughters to the circus. "How is this a criminal act?" you ask. I had a pocket knife - a simple pocket knife - that made the metal detector go off. Withought hesitation, I put the contents of my pocket on the table. Wallet, keys, cell phone and knife.

The want-to-be-cop security guard informed me that I wasn't allowed to bring an "illegal weapon" into the areana.

Withought getting belligerent, I stated it was not a "weapon" or "illegal". He countered with "OK, its not illegal, but you can't bring it in here.".

To make a long story longer, I was confronted with the fact that you can't check a pocket knife. You have to throw it away. I opted for my wife's and grandaughter's happyness and let them pitch my knife.

All I have to say is:

Congradulations Bin Laden, you are winning - we are now parinoid.

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"The pump don't work cause' the vandals took the handle" - Bob Dylan

Buddha

That is bullshit. Like a guy with his wife and grandkids is gonna start something.

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Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission
Ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite
All of which are american dreams

duck

The grandson of a known Fascist sympathizer and WWII profiteer becomes president of the United States. We got what we paid for when the terrorists stepped up the game.

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Religion: The ultimate definition of verisimilitude

NotConvinced

Sounds ok on the surface, but if you add that exception to the rule, what other exceptions are there, how much more complicated can we make the security effort?

If 100 people have to lose their pocket knives to save the life of one person, would you favor it? Indeed, it's not at all a fair ratio, as deaths per pocket knife carrier are relatively miniscule.....so..... 1,000,000 people lose their pocket knives and other questionable weapons to save the life of one person, would you favor that? I would. But they don't even have to lose their pocket knives you say? Right you are, if you count out those lucky people who left their pocket knife at home or in their car, you can get it back down to a few hundred probably....

all about the Big Picture, possessions mean nothing compared to life, just like the Cal fires are comparatively nothing to a weeks worth of Iraq violence.

WilliamBlue

Would you give up all your freedoms and rights to save one person? Congratulations to the terrorist is correct, we are now heading down the road to a police state.

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When you dance with an elephant it's up to you to not get stepped on.
How can we be so arrogant and egotistical to believe that the whole Universe was created just for us?

NotConvinced

Would I give up all my freedoms and rights to save one person? No, and that's not what the question was. The question in this thread is:

"Would you give up your freedom to take a pocket-knife/questionable weapon into a circus/large public gathering?" I would, anyone willing to post a reply who wouldn't?

WilliamBlue

I think everyone should have a knife, how can you be a terrorist if you are facing being out gunned twenty to one. If the good people in our society don't have weapons only the bad will. I was pointing out easy you gave up your right to carry a perfectly legal pocket knife, what next? The right to have your phone conversations bugged, your mail or maybe you need a chip in your arm so we know who you are? Don't worry you'll be safe though.

Bill

__________________
When you dance with an elephant it's up to you to not get stepped on.
How can we be so arrogant and egotistical to believe that the whole Universe was created just for us?

Buddha

At what point are we going to say enough is enough? This country was created by risking lives to ensure freedom. Now the war is here and were not willing to risk lives anymore.

__________________
Compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission
Ignorance, hypocrisy, brutality, the elite
All of which are american dreams

Aaron

I anticipated responces such as NotConvinced. I understand the logic of what you are saying - don't agree - but understand what Bill is getting at and the real point here. Knives aren't dangerous, people are dangerous. Far more people are killed at large events by trampeling and isolated beatings with random available objects than with knives.

The only way to keep people truely safe at large events is to ban large events. Anyone who thinks that all this beefed up security is keeping us safer is a fool and is allowing the government and law makers to sap away the rights and freedoms we have as Americans.

I am looking at the big picture NotConvinced, and it scares me. The big picture is not about my knife. The big picture is police check points, allowing search and seizure withought probable cause, survailence cameras anywhere you go, entrapment seems to be legal now, rediculous DUI laws (No, I'm not for driving drunk, but two beers shouldn't be enough to get a DUI), government telling private buiseness owners they can't allow smoking at thier place of buiseness ... the list goes on and on.

Like Bill said, where are we going to draw the line?

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"The pump don't work cause' the vandals took the handle" - Bob Dylan

NotConvinced

And the big picture was what I was trying to get at, and overall I thought it was supposed to be about safety/security/saving lives. I've seen the other side of things, but overall I'm just...not convinced big brother is really stepping all over my toes. By police check points you mean the security stations at large public events? Search and seizure w/o probably cause I'd take your side with, unless there's some extreme circumstance. Survailence everywhere is just something we're gonna have to deal with, that's more private business protection that anything else. The entrapment thing I'm taking your side with, never have liked the notion of "pre-crime." The DUI laws I'd have to get more info on, surely 2 beers wouldn't be too much?... could be wrong. The smoking thing seems like a whole nother issue in itself. If the only half-way decent job you're able to find is waitressing in a restaurant that allows smoking, wouldn't that be some kind of hazardess work environment? Regardless it's states and cities that choose to ban smoking mostly by popular vote anyway.

Maybe we've had it too good for so long we forgot as a society what the rest of the world was like.....dangerous. We have to take more security measures to combat what some of the rest of the world seems to want to bring to our doorstep. Couldn't there atleast be the slightest possibility that we've been spoiled with how we manage our freedom?

And Bill I get what you're saying about the right to carry a weapon and defend yourself if need be, would've been cool to see if that could've made a difference in the Virginia Tech thing. But to a certain degree I don't think I trust everyone to handle weapons like that in a public gathering setting.

On a sidenote, you're unhappy about the tramepling on the rights of private business to allow smoking, but you're unhappy when private business exercises their right to deny you weapons at Their event.