is existence meaningless ?

phidelis07 · 07-05-2007, 03:43 AM

If we assume the position of the atheist then there is no god and what we do here is inconsequential. It will all be for not. Some atheist say that their existence meaningful because its meaningful to them, and the live life to its fullest. That's all fine and dandy because its a good way to live, but in the grand scheme of things their life will be inconsequential and all meaning derived in their life will dye with them. This point is so much clearer if we are to believe the physicist in their theories of the universe collapsing in on itself only to form a new universe. Once that happens everything achieved in this universe will cease to exist. If this is bound to occur and the universe will collapse on itself then form a new universe and do such for an eternity, is it all not meaningless ? Is the starving of the kids in africa, is the daily grind,pain ,hurt is it all pointless ? Is there no meaning in kindness and love ? One could say it has meaning in the here and now, but what then of the here and now ? It has no value....

**debdodd** · 07-05-2007, 09:22 AM

it is meaningless to worry about it .... it is what it is. Your line of thought leads to despair. It is best just to live and not let that kind of thought lead you down that road ..... Life has the value that you bring into it, what you achieve in it, who you love in it and who in return loves you. If you get caught up in that spider web, circular mode of thought it is counter productive. It is not about the destination as it is the journey ... going to a human conception of heaven or hell is meaningless, what you do, how you live in the hear and now is far more important than where you'll end up. In the end .... you are still dead. Just life a good life ... the definition to the word good is up for debate.

Life has value ... perhaps you just haven't lived long enough to see it.

jaej · 07-05-2007, 09:27 AM

I agree with deb. Life has the value you give to it. If you want to live a life of despair, thinking all the time your life has no meaning then so be it. I would call that a wasted life. Your life has meaning to you, to your friends and family, to the people you affect and the people that affect you. That's all the meaning I need. I don't need to live forever to live well.

**debdodd** · 07-05-2007, 12:48 PM

when I was little we would have to do these nuclear bomb drills or what ever they called them back then ... not the disaster drills that they call them now ... anyway, I can remember that I was so scared when I went to bed at night, I thought the communist were going to bomb us while we were sleeping and that I wouldn't get to do all the things I wanted to do in my life. At that time I prayed every night, praying that God would spare the world 'cause of my "to do" list. Weird that 8 years old I had a "to do" list before I died but I did. It included getting married, have children, go to college .... the mundane things in life ... I was so scared I would cry myself to sleep .... What kind of life is that for a person to live? Afraid that you are going to loose the opportunity to accomplish the "mundane" things. For a while I would fight sleep because of that fear. I had to rationalize it all out finally or go completely crazy with fear of not waking up tomorrow. If I died in my sleep tonight my only regret is that I left too many books and things about my bed and that the person who comes to settle my affairs will have to sort thru all the stacks of books and misc. junk wondering what to do with them. I have few regrets. Sure I hope to live long enough to see Grandkids and stuff like that but few other regrets. I have known happiness, sadness, indifference, love, hate and lust, and can usually tell the difference. I know I have made a difference in other people's life because of the things I have contributed to society ... one's impact on the life of those left living is what matters.

My point is: don't dwell so much on the actual mechanic of life that you forget to live it. One cannot do more than ponder the mysteries of life and for you to use caution with your line of questioning existence for you can loose yourself in that pondering and perhaps find only hopelessness. Find a way to find joy in the moment, live in hopefulness for what is around the corner and contentment when you you are old of a life lived well. Don't get sucked into the abyss of what if ....

Unbeliever · 07-05-2007, 02:53 PM

I think existence is ultimately meaningless, but I could be wrong, and there might in fact be some kind of meaning to existence that I simply haven't yet encountered. As near as I can tell, though, my state after I die will be exactly like my state before I was born (or concieved). Since I see no reason to expect any kind of life after this one, I try to live each moment as happily as I can manage. That doesn't mean that I just party hearty all the time, only that whatever situation I find myself in, I try to stay in a positive mood. I realize that I can't change the past, so there's no sense in regretting any part of it. I also realize that I might not be alive five minutes from now, so I don't worry too much about the future, either. As Clarence Darrow once said, "We are born and we die; and between these two most important events in our lives more or less time elapses which we have to waste somehow or other. In the end it does not seem to matter much whether we have done so in making money, or practicing law, or reading or playing, or in any other way, as long as we felt we were deriving a maximum of happiness out of our doings."

Even with this way of looking at life, I still can never be truly happy, because I'm aware of the vast amount of misery in the world, human and otherwise. But knowing I can do nothing about it, I try not to let it depress me.

jaej · 07-05-2007, 02:59 PM

There's nothing wrong with partying heartily.

Unbeliever · 07-05-2007, 03:35 PM

Oh, sure, I certainly can do that when it's appropriate!

Og · 07-05-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Campbell

Now the key story for me about Buddhism concerns the sermon where the Buddha was seated, and there was a great group around him and he just held up a flower. Just a flower. One in the group got what the Buddha was on about. For him, the flower itself was enough to spark enlightenment. The rest of the crowd were still in the dark, so to speak, so the Buddha delivered a sermon--the great Flower Wreath Sutra (Avatamsaka Sutra)--to explain what he meant, which was this:

There is nothing to say about life. It has no meaning. You make meaning. If you want a meaning in your life, find a meaning and bring it into your life, but life won't give you a meaning. Meaning is a concept. It is a notion of an end toward which you are going. The point of Buddhism is this is it.

The Buddha is called tathagata, "the one who has come, thus"; the flower is the tathagata that has come thus. The Buddha is often shown just looking at the flower. That flower is the world. That flower is a flower. That flower is what I am looking at now. This has been made to serve an end but that is not the essence of the mystery of this thing. The essence of the mystery is its very being, which has a ring around it of cosmic ocean, you might say, beyond which you cannot look.

Buddhism is the illumination to the fact, the realization of the fact that this is it. You are it and it is nothing. It is a very difficult thing to tell anyone about because the words themselves suggest that there is a meaning here, but the thing is just to get it, and that is why you can't communicate or teach Buddhism: you can only bring a person up to it.

This is the quote I often offer to those who look for meaning. If a particular God or god or gods are your meaning, then enjoy them.

phidelis07 · 07-05-2007, 10:27 PM

I suppose when i brought atheism into the equation people thought i meant that GOD(s) some how make this life meaningful, and to extent i think it can. I meant that if one is atheist and says the he/she will create meaning in his/her life how can that meaning still be relevant when that person's meaning will have died with them, and any sort of legacy they struggled to create will eventually cease to be. If the universe is bound to die and be reborn in an infinite loop as science is suggesting then any life, any pain, any love and sort of meaning within anybodies existence will never have mattered.

jaej · 07-05-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

legacy they struggled to create will eventually cease to be.

Not reallly. The effects we have never die. Sort of like ripples in a pond, they keep bouncing off each other into different directions. Obviously not a perfect analogy, but good enough.

I see no reason why it matters that the person's meaning die with them. Who cares? They don't, they're dead. The whole point is to give yourself meaning to your own life, to life to the fullest, the best life you can.