The An-Jel

Absolutely Ven. The trick is getting your mind into such a gear where you are objective in your observations. You have to ask yourself and others the right questions where all possibilities are open. Seperating yourself from the society you live in is an imperative! I think I mentioned above about how most philosophers I have studied and read about relate their philosophy's to the society they exist in. While this is a question Philosophy should ask the human prejiduce rears it's ugly head more often than not and the idea of controlling others comes into play... Utilitarianism strikes me immediately. The greatest good for the greatest number (I hope I got that right.) Not all people are the same. Physically I fit into the same human mold as all the rest of humanity. I have met people that excell mentally and think in such a different yet productive way that the standard society just doesn't fit. Agnostics who all ask great questions... who mostly think outside the box of religion and even society as a whole have grand and objective questions and answers to offer.

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Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

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niranjan

“I would not think that philosophy and reason themselves will be man's guide in the foreseeable future; however, they will remain the most beautiful sanctuary they have always been for the select few” .
Albert Einstein




It takes a subtle intellect to understand the nuances of philosophy. And hence for this reason the intellectuals in any society is a minority.

However it is the intelligentsia in any nation that forges the evolution of that society and nation to greater heights.

The works of Rousseau, Voltaire, Thomas Paine was responsible for the French Revolution.

Similarly in the American Revolution, the works of Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine and other philosophers were highly influential.

Thomas Paine clearly influenced Abraham Lincoln and Thomas Alva Edison.

Alexander was inspired by his master Aristotle, whose works clearly influenced the development of Alexanders character.

Similarly the works of Ralph Waldo Emerson, Friedrich Nietzche, Francis Bacon, Bertrand Russel,Goethe, Locke, Spinoza, Marcus Aurelius,Vivekananda,Shankara,Socrates, Plato,Confucius, and other philosophers has clearly influenced their respective countries and the rest of the world as well, and their works were certainly instrumental in influencing and altering the course of history.

Hence for this reason , I belive it is a folly to underestimate the potency of philosophy.

jaej

Who said anything about underestimating? I agree with you so far as that philosophy can have a profound impact on society. I also agree with An-Jel in that it's limited to the people that can handle it.

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niranjan

Well, Deobdad and the others seems to be vilifying philosophy, hence my statement.

<<<<I also agree with An-Jel in that it's limited to the people that can handle it>>>>

I didnt exactly understand what you meant by this.

jaej

I was just confused. You seemed to be defending a point, but I didn't know who said philosophy was unnecessary or who underestimated it. Sorry.

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Neo

I say philosophy is a refuge of many a people. And this site houses one where I feel safe.

lauraclay

Strangely off topic, but:
Socrates did not write anything down because he believe knowledge was a living acting thing. If it wasn't for Plato, we probably would not know much about him at all, and many of his philosophies would be lost. Who knows how many people in the history of the world have died, taking their great ideas with them. I don't think I can see putting his ideas of knowledge over....infamy. Men don't live forever, but ideas can, if they provide for it. Can anyone defend Socrates?

A random sidenote: anyone ever seen Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure? All I can ever think of when I see "Socrates" is "so-crates". lol

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The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

debdodd

I said I hated my college philosophy class .... not the subject matter ...

First of all the guy spoke poorly, with a thick, heavily accented English, another reason is probably that I was too young & immature at the time to understand the nuances of philosophy but as to "subtle intellect to understand the nuances of philosophy. And hence for this reason the intellectuals in any society is a minority." that sounds, at least to me, some what elitist or condescending .... what do you mean by "subtle intellect" anyway?

None the less, since the first philosophers had focused their attention upon nature where as the Sophist/Socrates concerned their philosophical study of man, instead of asking the large cosmic questions about the ultimate principle of "things", the Sophists/Socrates became preoccupied with questions relating more directly to man's behavior. This move from mostly scientific concerns to basic ethical questions is thought, in part, to be due by the failure of Pre-Socrates to arrive at any uniform conception of the cosmos.

So instead of debating about alternative theories of nature, there was a switch to asking whether it was possible for the human mind to discover any universal human knowledge..... throw into the mix the different cultures, races, religions and rulers of the time, with all these differences in mind, could questions of universal goodness be known if man was incapable of knowing any universal truths?

It's surprising to me that philosophers continued to ask questions in light of the conflicts and inconclusive answers to universal truth .... they could have easily said if there is no answer to the first how can we answer the second. Amazing that they didn't all become skeptics ...

I was in college during the stone age (better known as the stoned age) so that definitely could have contributed to my inability to grasp certain concepts ... back then it was .... if a tree falls in the woods and there is no one to hear it does it make a noise ... it was basically if no one was there ... who cares .... Not all professors are cut out to teach philosophy and I agree with Vencedor that it is a class/subject one needs to study at their leisure. When philosophy is studied in freshman year of college, their are so many changes going on in a young person's life, that grasping these complex thought processes are can be tough .... freshman year, first semester was about beer bongs and parties .... not listening to guy at 8am speaking unintelligible English .... even taping his classes, I'd have to listen to the tapes over and over, and still couldn't understand him .... so it wasn't vilifying philosophy so much as it was the actual class itself (and prof)

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"Ubi dubium ibi libertas."

"We are all lone souls. It pays to know humility, lest the delusion of control, of mastery, overwhelms. And indeed, we seem a species prone to that delusion, again and ever again ....."

lauraclay

Scepticism probably wasn't the only answer because of hope. Maybe we can't answer the first, but if we can answer enough of the seconds, maybe we'll get closer to the first. Never give up on a problem, there is always a solution.

__________________

The purpose of a fish trap is to catch fish,
and when the fish are caught, the trap is forgotten.

The purpose of a rabbit snare is to catch rabbits.
When the rabbits are caught, the snare is forgotten.

The purpose of words is to convey ideas.
When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.

Where can I find a man who has forgotten words?
He is the one I would like to talk to.

The An-Jel

Socrates is one of those types of people that simply felt the Earth below his feet and ignored the societal stereotypes. I'll toss a few names out there before Socrates. I Love The Greeks. They were instrumental for the exponential rise and fall of people today. I think the rise will overcome the fall.

It starts with Thales of Milesian among the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Sages_of_Greece

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"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment