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Originally Posted by Og  Modern religion seems to simply be science from 7000 years ago that got turned into a tool for social control. |
Modern religion, especially the last 200 years or so is VERY different than it's former state.
Take for example, the pride and glory of the Catholics. Saint Augustine. He's the dude...he has the 5 PROOF's didn't you know?
He was a conviction agnostic. He was the very definition of agnosticism and his views were very much in alignment(helped to create) the agnostic tradition within christianity. He did not believe that knowlege of God could ever be obtained. All we could gain in contemplate of God, was what God was NOT, ...we could never know what God was. His 5 proofs were not supposed to be taken as evidence, they were supposed to be contemplated on when one thought about God.
He..was an Agnostic which was the foundation of early christianity.
As it grew, it required a collective body to manage it, a heirachy so to speak. Along side that grew rules, regulations and dogmatic beliefs. Christianity changed from being a painful but exhilerating and encouraging exploration into the unknown, with all the doubts and lack of assurances that came along with it, to a religion of Certainty. It never used to be that way.
The more "certain" christianity attempted to be, the more it moved away from it's former self which included Scientific exploration, until Science was in direct conflict with it. If you are going to talk about certainty, then lets not PRETEND or BELIEVE we are certain. let's prove it.
Philosophy was all that was left in the middle.
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NOTHING is outside the realm of physics. It describes all things.. It is not limited to material or spiritual. If spiritual has a definition, it can be understood and studied and that, by definition, is physics. It's the study of what exists.
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Ahh..you see..I don't agree. We cannot prove anything outside of our natural observable world. That doesn't mean something outside of our natural world doesn't exist. It also doesn't mean something outside of our natural world DOES exist. It just means, we along with science have limits.
Athiests and Thiests are so similiar in so many ways. Their dogma is based on certainty. Their religion is certainty.
But neither will ever "know" nor will they have to. They will not KNOW if there is more to be known, or if there is no more to be known. This is actually quite humbling when you first come across it, to really really recognize that no matter how certain we are about somethings, we can never truly be certain of anything.
To take a note out of socrates book, a man becomes wise, when he knows, that he knows nothing.
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