xxkayxx

Well, I'm not quite sure if this is the best place to post this, but i feel like i really need to get this out there. Anyways, today i was faced with a situation, food poisoning perhaps, and it got to a certain point where I just wanted the pain to stop and actually prayed to god. This isn't a daily thing for me , keep in mind, and right after i actually felt a sort of shame that I was in a way "forced" to go against what i believe, and do that. I then realized that in the past, even though i was an atheist, when times got hard, I'd make "bargains" with "god" thinking that perhaps it might have an effect on things, if in fact he did exist. This is all very confusing to me, and i realized if god did in fact exist, and putting me through pain was a sort of way for him to get me to "acknowledge" him, then i really dont want anything to do with him. This experience has definately made me question my beliefs, and think about how brainwashing might go even farther than i had originally thought.

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing

GX

Very interesting you mention this. I used to behave this way in my younger days when I believed in the various religious interpretations of God. Specifically of a God that needed to be feared and that us humans needed to behave a certain way in order to please God. I naturally resisted those notions but still believed them to be accurate. When rough times hit, I found myself making "bargains" with God that I will live a certain way and do certain things if he takes away the rough event. When it went away I conveniently forgot about the bargains.

Thankfully my view of God is no longer of a neurotic God that needs to be feared and pleased and this kind of behavior no longer happens. I think that perhaps, even though you are an atheist, you feel that if a God exists, he is indeed the God of those insane religions that needs to be feared and pleased and worshipped and thus during the rough times you make bargains with this insane God. You need to ask yourself, if there is a God, do you seriously believe him to be that dysfunctional, neurotic being that some christian religions make him out to be?

Even though your an atheist, you may still be brainwashed by the dysfunctional catholic notion of God. Im not saying you should incur a belief in God, but you may wish to change this negative perception you have of him. I suggest you read "conversations with God" book 1 by Neale Donald Walsch. It is a positive spiritual interpretation of God that throws all of those negative dysfunctional stereotypes out the window. You can still be an atheist, but at least this way, you will at least rid your psyche of those unhealthy negative stereotypes.

spiritualquest

Ok.... I do the same thing. Whenever I find myself in dire need and in a mess that I cannot figure out how to get out of ..... I pray. I say to myself, this god must be there? I am ingrained to believe he is. Many say he is. They say this is the way to turn. Well, right now I am very angry with him IF he exists. I am just plain old fed up with crap.

Why is it that the good people of this world must suffer? What kind of god makes loving, giving, caring people suffer? What kind of god lets us pray and get empty promises? They are empty. They are empty for me. What has believing in this god gotten me? Nothing. Nothing but a life filled with pain and sorrow. You will say, well it is my own doing. I suppose so in many ways. Life choices seem to be a little like a game show of some kind. "Do you pick door #1, #2, or #3"? One of them is a good choice. All of them look like good choices, but ooops...... guess what? Two of those choices look good but when the door opens, the joke is on you.

I think maybe people who are evil and filled with hatred get alot further. And the afterlife?????? what is it?????

The Christian perspective would teach that this life is just trials of your faith and that we must suffer because that is what we do to prove our faith. I am quite sure there is some bible passage in Job or something that explains it all.

Well, I am tired of giving and giving and forgiving and getting nothing back but misery.

Who is this GOD?

Debra

john76

Job's not a really good one for explaining God, especially with Christians. Christians say that the trials we face are moot for God because no matter what the circumstance, God already saw the whole thing before hand and knew what we were going to do. The trial is just so that we can 'also' see it. This doesn't really work with Job. Satan's demand of God to test Job only makes sense because God has no idea how Job would react, and is the basis for His anger at Job in the end of the story. If God is all knowing, then the story of Job makes no sense. If God is not all knowing, then I don't think too much of Him for testing us with extraordinary circumstances.

GX

Debra,
I personally believe that it is not just a matter of choices but also a matter of beliefs and your emotional outlook. If you believe you were placed on this earth in a state of original sin, to spend your life to suffer and endure while trying to erase this sin and you carry with you a negative emotional mindset about it, this will be your existence. This mindset will affect your choices. On the other hand, if you change your beliefs that your natural state of being is one of joy and not original sin that God will not punish you but is one of unconditional love, that will be your existence. If you wish to believe in God or get an alternative explanation that makes sense and you are looking for positive answers and new perspectives to this question and about how things work, I suggest you read the book I recommended to xxKayxx in my previous post and then make up your own mind about it. It seems to me that you are currently stuck in the old dysfunctional religious belief systems and I suggest you seek additional data and alternative explanations.

As far as people filled with evil and hatred getting further, their life is empty and hollow as they try to fill the void inside with material things. The toys lose their luster and if an event doesnt go their way it negatively rocks their world and they are back to square one. Themselves. Find the joy within yourself not outside yourself. I wish you well.

Skepticologist

I've read the foregoing posts and am beginning to come to a conclusion. Preliminarily, it is this: before even beginning to consider what you're going to believe, you must decide on standards for what you're going to accept as beliefs. And those standards can range from accepting anything and everything that momentarily resonates with you to demanding that the beliefs you accept conform to your understanding of reason and logic. Personally, I prefer the latter.

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"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

to_hobbes

I'm not sure when it was, but at some point in my life I came to the realization that God doesn't answer prayers, no matter what religion you use to do it. And people who think He does answer prayers are just fooling themselves into thinking the prayers were answered. Some of the atheists I have spoken with have a very good way of explaining how prayers seem to be answered even if they are not (check this video, about 8 min.).

But I know, sometimes when you are in pain, like you have a stomach ache, or you get injured in some way, and you feel like you just need the pain to stop and you have to appeal to something, anything, that could help.

When that happens, I don't pray. I have come up with a few ways of dealing with those situations. Since prayer is just talking to yourself, I figure talking to yourself helps ease the pain. Not necessarily out-loud, but if I am alone, I do that sometimes.

I think it's because pain is in your mind, and if you can just distract your mind, or do something to make your mind ease-off the pain, it is very helpful.

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(By the way, it's all in your head.)

to_hobbes

Yeah, the Christian perspective was not very helpful to me at all. Nor the Muslim nor Buddhist perspective.

I stopped thinking about God as any source of relief. I am convinced that He doesn't answer prayers, and doesn't care whether anyone good or bad lives or dies. At first it was an enormous burden to me to know that I was 100% accountable for everything I did and everything that happened to me.

But, at the same time it was liberating. God wasn't hearing my every thought, and if he was, he didn't care. And life has absolutely NO RULES. I could get killed robbing a bank tomorrow if I wanted to.

So now, it's up to me to figure out everything. How can I not get killed tomorrow? Why do I not rob banks? I've come a long way, and it is very fulfilling knowing that yes, there is a reason to live and, yes there is a reason to NOT rob banks, and no, these reasons have nothing to do with staying out of hell. I am finally happy with the idea that everything I do has no ultimate universal purpose.

If there are no rules, then tomorrow anything can happen. In the end my intellect and self-confidence will make it work out for the best. When I rely on ME instead of waiting for God to answer prayers, then truly anything is possible.

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(By the way, it's all in your head.)

to_hobbes

Hi, GX. I always like hearing your point of view. And I just may pick up that book sometime.

Sure, believing God is some neurotic super-being that demands worship is rediculous, and sure this book will probably dissolve that negative image.

But in the end, I think a "conversation with God" is pointless. It's better to try and teach yourself that "I am the master of my own destiny" and any bad luck that comes your way is just another opportunity to sharpen your problem solving skills without God. It's counter-productive to sit and wait for God to answer prayers.

But, thats just my opinion. Obviously, there are some things on which we may never agree.

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(By the way, it's all in your head.)

xxkayxx

LOL, that was one of the funniest videos i've seen in awhile. I'm sure it has many devout christians very upset And thanx for the advice about keeping your mind distracted to ease pain. I'll have to remember that next time i guess. Prayer, i've never actually personally believed in, but i guess now i can see why it can make you believe you're doing something to make a difference. I think the last part of the video was alittle final though.

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If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing