has this ever happened to anyone else? - Page 2

to_hobbes · 03-23-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxkayxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by to_hobbes

Some of the atheists I have spoken with have a very good way of explaining how prayers seem to be answered even if they are not (check this video, about 8 min.).

LOL, that was one of the funniest videos i've seen in awhile. I'm sure it has many devout christians very upset

And thanx for the advice about keeping your mind distracted to ease pain. I'll have to remember that next time i guess. Prayer, i've never actually personally believed in, but i guess now i can see why it can make you believe you're doing something to make a difference. I think the last part of the video was alittle final though.

Glad you liked it!

Yeah, the video is a bit harsh. They're like "It's so obvious that God does not answer prayers." But that's how I feel. It makes me chuckle to think about how a Christian would act if they were to see that whole thing.

Anyway. I hope the responses to your thread from various other members and myself have been helpful to you.

xxkayxx · 03-23-2008, 08:23 AM

Someone should go to a christian forum and post the link! bahaha...... Besides, we've already had a christain guy come on here and say over and over in various posts that god DOES exist, w/o any evidence, so it wouldnt really be that bad

GX · 03-23-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by to_hobbes

Hi, GX. I always like hearing your point of view. And I just may pick up that book sometime.

Sure, believing God is some neurotic super-being that demands worship is rediculous, and sure this book will probably dissolve that negative image.

But in the end, I think a "conversation with God" is pointless. It's better to try and teach yourself that "I am the master of my own destiny" and any bad luck that comes your way is just another opportunity to sharpen your problem solving skills without God. It's counter-productive to sit and wait for God to answer prayers.

But, thats just my opinion. Obviously, there are some things on which we may never agree.

Hello To_hobbes
Believe it or not, I am pretty much in full agreement with you on this. Conversations with God illustrates that you indeed are the master of your destiny and that any bad luck that comes your way is just another opportunity to learn. The whole point of the book is that you are the creator of your destiny and that you may converse with God if you wish, but it is not necessary or required. It goes on to say that even a belief in God is not required as he/she/it is not this needy neurotic being in need of acknowledgement or worship. It postulates that we are all interconnected individuations of God/the universe and what God wants is for everyone to use their freewill to evolve and create themselves anew in whatever way we personally choose, not worship or acknoledgement. It also give a lot of practical information on how to do this and the creative nature of thoughts, emotions and actions. The only thing I partly disagree with you on is that conversations with God are pointless. If you got it going on and you are cruising through life on auto pilot and having a great time, then yes they are pointless, however, if you get stuck trying to make sense of something and wish for some clarity, asking God or the universe to assist you in finding your personal clarity, IMHO is quite effective. It also states that prayers of supplication are pretty much useless. On what basis will God decide which prayers get answered and which ones dont? It is a very good book for those supers who seek a healthy interpretation of the divine and even those brights who wish to get some practical pointers on how to make life work for you. Im sure you would be surprised at how many things we actually do agree on.

to_hobbes · 03-23-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GX

Hello To_hobbes
Believe it or not, I am pretty much in full agreement with you on this. Conversations with God illustrates that you indeed are the master of your destiny and that any bad luck that comes your way is just another opportunity to learn. The whole point of the book is that you are the creator of your destiny and that you may converse with God if you wish, but it is not necessary or required. It goes on to say that even a belief in God is not required as he/she/it is not this needy neurotic being in need of acknowledgement or worship. It postulates that we are all interconnected individuations of God/the universe and what God wants is for everyone to use their freewill to evolve and create themselves anew in whatever way we personally choose, not worship or acknoledgement. It also give a lot of practical information on how to do this and the creative nature of thoughts, emotions and actions. The only thing I partly disagree with you on is that conversations with God are pointless. If you got it going on and you are cruising through life on auto pilot and having a great time, then yes they are pointless, however, if you get stuck trying to make sense of something and wish for some clarity, asking God or the universe to assist you in finding your personal clarity, IMHO is quite effective. It also states that prayers of supplication are pretty much useless. On what basis will God decide which prayers get answered and which ones dont? It is a very good book for those supers who seek a healthy interpretation of the divine and even those brights who wish to get some practical pointers on how to make life work for you. Im sure you would be surprised at how many things we actually do agree on.

Well, I guess you're right. We actually probably agree on everything except for the practicality of conversing with God. The scientific method works better I think, even in a moral/philosophical crisis (that's been my experience).

Anyway, this "Conversations with God" sounds like a very interesting read. Thanks for the recommendation.

GX · 03-23-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by to_hobbes

Well, I guess you're right. We actually probably agree on everything except for the practicality of conversing with God. The scientific method works better I think, even in a moral/philosophical crisis (that's been my experience).

Anyway, this "Conversations with God" sounds like a very interesting read. Thanks for the recommendation.

I wasnt necessarily referring to crisis situations, but more general stuff, and it is not so much "conversing and listening" to god than it is "meditating" on an issue as opposed to "thinking" it through. Im not saying that you shouldnt ever think things through but sometimes I find if I quiet my mind and I take a meditative walk, ideas and solutions will eventually start to flow naturally. Nietschze, among others found this method effective as well.

Nick Treklis · 03-24-2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxkayxx

Well, I'm not quite sure if this is the best place to post this, but i feel like i really need to get this out there. Anyways, today i was faced with a situation, food poisoning perhaps, and it got to a certain point where I just wanted the pain to stop and actually prayed to god. This isn't a daily thing for me , keep in mind, and right after i actually felt a sort of shame that I was in a way "forced" to go against what i believe, and do that. I then realized that in the past, even though i was an atheist, when times got hard, I'd make "bargains" with "god" thinking that perhaps it might have an effect on things, if in fact he did exist. This is all very confusing to me, and i realized if god did in fact exist, and putting me through pain was a sort of way for him to get me to "acknowledge" him, then i really dont want anything to do with him. This experience has definately made me question my beliefs, and think about how brainwashing might go even farther than i had originally thought.

Chances are good you haven't meditated long enough on what you know to be ultimately true. Think long and hard about the truth of the matter and over time you should be able to over come any of the false beliefs that were impressed upon you at a young age.

xxkayxx · 03-24-2008, 07:34 PM

Yeah, and thank you for the reply, I guess that was what i was waiting for someone to say.

kellid · 03-29-2008, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxkayxx

Well, I'm not quite sure if this is the best place to post this, but i feel like i really need to get this out there. Anyways, today i was faced with a situation, food poisoning perhaps, and it got to a certain point where I just wanted the pain to stop and actually prayed to god. This isn't a daily thing for me , keep in mind, and right after i actually felt a sort of shame that I was in a way "forced" to go against what i believe, and do that. I then realized that in the past, even though i was an atheist, when times got hard, I'd make "bargains" with "god" thinking that perhaps it might have an effect on things, if in fact he did exist. This is all very confusing to me, and i realized if god did in fact exist, and putting me through pain was a sort of way for him to get me to "acknowledge" him, then i really dont want anything to do with him. This experience has definately made me question my beliefs, and think about how brainwashing might go even farther than i had originally thought.

your not confused about believing in God, but you may not be ready to admit it.

xxkayxx · 03-29-2008, 09:09 AM

Not ready to admit it? Seems like you might be making an assumption about me. I think i know what i believe in tyvm, and no, i'm not ready to admit that i believe in god, because i don't

I chose to be agnostic for the fact i don't have to say that i believe in this, don't this, and i can still get away with it, since its al based (i think) on "only the truth matters". I'd rather worship the great cow lord than have to fully believe , and worship, something thats not even physically there. Since i started this thread, i've come to peace with my beliefs, for the most part anyways. As far as i'm concerned, if a god does in fact exist, and its the one that christians worshp, id rather worship satan. To me, if a god does exist, i wouldn't realy consider him a "god", more like an important force or such, and i wouldnt want to worship something that causes so much pain to everything ^^If you think of agnostics as fence sittrs, that you can easily knock off into your beliefs, you have another thing coming =) (yh, don't take this the wrong way, im just a sarcastic person at times)

Peace

GX · 03-29-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by to_hobbes

Some of the atheists I have spoken with have a very good way of explaining how prayers seem to be answered even if they are not (check this video, about 8 min.).

I finally got a chance to view this video. It was very good and spot on about prayers of supplication which I dont believe in. But then he goes on to say that because of his neat little presentation on prayers that God doesnt exist. How can you prove God doesnt exist solely based on that? The only thing that can possibly prove is that prayers of supplication do not get answered and not that God doesnt exist. He goes on to mention some atheist links. On these links they use the bible quotes and claims by christians to "prove" that God doesnt exist. To definitively claim that God doesnt exist solely because of biblical contradictions and the humans who believe these contradictions is preposterous. That is the problem with atheists. They base their non-belief solely on the inconsistencies of ancient religious texts and the people who believe them which isnt at all scientific. Atheists can be just as delusional in their self righteousness and their "evidence of Gods non-existence" as fundamentalist religious zealots are in their claims. They are opposite sides of the same crazy co-dependent coin as far as Im concerned.