TheHeroOfTime

First off I'd like to say I'm new here (Hello to everyone!), but extremely interested in the things I recently read.

I searched the forums to see if I could find anything regarding Christianity being a mythology. I found a few posts, but nothing to which I would like to debate.

I'm here to ask everyone what they think of this idea. Personally I believe that all religions are based on some sort of mythology. I recently struck a debate with a decently devout Christian. This person wholly believes that Christianity is not a mythology. I argue however, that all stories in the old testament (Noah's Ark, Sodom and Gamorrah, Jesus turning water into wine, curing the blind, etc...) are all mythology (you cannot prove them true, hence myth). What do you think?

My second question is, this Christian believes that what Jesus did throughout his life (turning bread into more bread, curing the blind, etc) was not magic, but rather miracles. I however see no difference between Jesus' "miracles" and someone who claims to practice sorcery (a magus, if you believe these sort of people exist). What do you think?

Thanks for any replies and I realize that these are extremely open ended questions; so nothing is out of the question when debating!

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"Don't be so quick to deal out death in judgment" - Gandalf the Grey

Og

Howdy and welcome to the forum. Have you read any Joseph Campbell?

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
Satchitananda - True Being, Pure Consciousness, and Bliss
Tat Tvam Asi - Thou art That.
You & I, no distinction.
Mettā & Namaste

TheHeroOfTime

Actually no I have not, this is going to sound strange, but I've read a decent amount by authors who compare works of literary mythology (JRR Tolkien, CS Lewis) to Christianity by suggesting that Christianity is indeed a mythology, and pure Christians fail to realize it.

But who is this man and what does he argue?

__________________
"Don't be so quick to deal out death in judgment" - Gandalf the Grey

Og

I recommend wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell

Joseph Campbell was the definitive expert on myth as metaphor and the monomyth of human culture represented in various "local forms" as the various religions of the world from native american to hindu and christian cultures.

Joseph Campbell is responsible for the mythic structure of the original Star Wars movies as well as many other modern myths including "The Matrix"... A recent History Channel special on the 30th anniversary of Star Wars was narrated by the director of the Joseph Campbell foundation.

Joseph Campbell was a professor of Comparative Mythology and was probably the founder of the field given how the world shrunk in cultural size massively during his life time and he was there to document and comment on it all.

To me, his work defines what myths are and where they come from. He has a 4 point definition of what a myth is and what it's functions are that is worth studying. His collected lectures are available on CD, DVD, and in book form and he has many books specifically written on these topics as well.

It's life changing stuff that empowers you to understand where your myths come from. It's academic work that gives you powers to understand yourself and your myth and the mystery of existence. It empowers you with facts about the history/context of religions and how they all derive from the same elementary ideas. "Myth" is the folks/cultural expression of that elementary ideas in terms of cultural images of a group of people.

I highly recommend his work to anyone seeking to understand myth and religion over the entire course of human history.

__________________
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
Satchitananda - True Being, Pure Consciousness, and Bliss
Tat Tvam Asi - Thou art That.
You & I, no distinction.
Mettā & Namaste

GX

In my opinion:

Yes I believe christianity is based on mythology. "Original Sin" and Christs mission of sacrificing himself for our original sin is definitely mythology based on deception.

As far as your second question, who cares what word label you put on it, "miracles", "magick" or "quantum mechanics", it all results in the same thing. I do believe he did what he did and his purpose was to convince us that we could do the same. As far as how he did it, IMO, I think it is one of the theories of quantum mechanics that says your thoughts are energy that effect whatever it is you observe. Jesus had this talent and so does the human race but we dont know how to harness or use it yet.

GI

I think Acharya S and Timothy Freke/Peter Gandy's books pretty much prove conclusively that both the Bible is a book of myths, it's very clear and it's quite remarkable that some still can't see it!!?? However, I do believe there was a man Jesus around whom myth was built.

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The more you know, the more you realize you don't know, the less you know the more you THINK you know.

Skepticologist

I second Og's referral to Joseph Campbell. It was he, in 1986 - just one year before his death - who first helped me make sense of a jumble of ideas and false starts I'd experienced since departing from Christianity specifically and organized religion in general.

His writings are a very good start in your quest for truth.

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"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

romansh

agreed

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to_hobbes

Welcome to the forum!
I'll respond to your post in two parts to make it easier if anyone wants to respond to me. This is part one.

Many great myths were probably based on a real person or event, from the Trojan war, to king Arthur, these stories are legends simply because they are passed on from generation to generation, and pick up more and more interesting details along the way. I think it was some 50 years after Jesus died before the first gospels were composed, and many more years before the gospels were committed to writing. Plenty of time to add in details or "prophecies" or whatever. If Jesus' first followers loved him as much as people love Elvis, then it's not a stretch of the imagination to see why people would claim that he isn't dead, but resurrected and living in heaven.

It depends on who you talk to. Most of my Christian friends are my friends because they believe that the Old Testimate are myths. Of course, there are plenty of crazies out there who insist on "black and white" interpretations of the words in the bible. Just ignore those people.

If you can't ignore them, maybe mention that several parts of the bible are actually multiple accounts of the same story -- especially the 4 remaining gospels. I'm not sure, but I think Genesis has 2 parts, and each part has a different account of the creation of the world. So if they want to insist on a literal interpretation, you can say that it's impossible because there are multiple, slightly different accounts of the same event, so obviously the Bible cannot be understood word for word. Just don't ever call the multiple accounts of the Bible "contradictions" because people get very pissed off and overly emotional.

__________________
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(By the way, it's all in your head.)

to_hobbes

Many great myths were probably based on a real person or event, from the Trojan war, to king Arthur, these stories are legends simply because they are passed on from generation to generation, and pick up more and more interesting details along the way. I think it was some 50 years after Jesus died before the first gospels were composed, and many more years before the gospels were committed to writing. Plenty of time to add in details or "prophecies" or whatever. If Jesus' first followers loved him as much as people love Elvis, then it's not a stretch of the imagination to see why people would claim that he isn't dead, but resurrected and living in heaven.

It depends on who you talk to. Most of my Christian friends are my friends because they believe that the Old Testimate are myths. Of course, there are plenty of crazies out there who insist on "black and white" interpretations of the words in the bible. Just ignore those people.

If you can't ignore them, maybe mention that several parts of the bible are actually multiple accounts of the same story -- especially the 4 remaining gospels. I'm not sure, but I think Genesis has 2 parts, and each part has a different account of the creation of the world. So if they want to insist on a literal interpretation, you can say that it's impossible because there are multiple, slightly different accounts of the same event, so obviously the Bible cannot be understood word for word. Just don't ever call the multiple accounts of the Bible "contradictions" because people get very pissed off and overly emotional.

__________________
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(By the way, it's all in your head.)