411314

Do you have the same position about other supernatural things (magic, ghosts, psychics, etc.) as you do about god? If not, what supernatural things do you feel differently about and why?

On the subject of psychics, does anyone know if the following story from a book about Joan of Arc is true?:

"One day after her return from Lorraine, February 12th, 1429, she intimated to all her surroundings and specially to Baudricourt, that the King had suffered a defeat near Orleans, which made it still more necessary that she should be at once conducted to him. It was found when there was time for the news to come, that this defeat, the Battle of the Herrings, so-called, had happened as she said, at the exact time; and such a strange fact added much to the growing enthusiasm and excitement."

Does that story convince anyone here who doesn't believe in psychics? Why or why not?

greywolf90

to me, supernatural phonamena is simply natural phonamena that science is not yet able to explain. lightning, disease, earthquakes, etc. were all at some point considered to be supernatural, but as science advanced, we were able to provide explainations for these natural things. so yes, as an agnostic, i consider the supernatural the same way i consider god: without any evidence, i am skeptical, but with some evidence, i consider it as a possiblity.

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"for there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."- Hamlet

GX

I definitely believe in psychic power from an experience I had. My best friend passed away suddenly a little over a year ago. My other friend (who never knew the friend who passed away) convinced me to go out with him to his new girlfriend’s place for drinks and revelry to get my mind off things. He doesn’t tell me his girlfriend is psychic (and a damn good one who doesn’t do it for a living). Anyway at the end of the night she felt my deceased friends presence and started rattling off a bunch of stuff about him that she couldnt possibly have known that only I knew that made my jaw drop. She then told me that my friend wanted me to let his family know that he was OK where he was at and to go on with our lives.

Jasen777

I do. I see no evidence for or against such things, and greatly doubt any claims people make about having experienced them. But I do not rule out that "something" may be out there.

Og

Supernatural is a cop-out word. If something exists, it's comprehendable and follows rules. If something doesn't have rules it has no coherence and can not be a thing (i.e. it can't be governed by rules like "a boundary that defines the thing").

If it does not have a reason behind it then it is just purely random noise. Existence of a thing requires that it be natural. It is wrong to try to formulate a concept and then call it supernatural. That says nothing about the concept. It only says loads about who/what you are and what your attitudes towards the world are.

Supernatural is a null word. All that exists is natural. That's the point.

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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici. (By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe)
The self is not a fixed entity but a dynamic process of relationships
You & I, no distinction. - Tat Tvam Asi
Become Who You Are

to_hobbes

I like to think agnostic means "open minded," particularly about religion and faith. So to say "being agnostic about other things" would be like saying "being open minded about other things." So I guess you could say I try to be agnostic about other things, as much as possible.

However, according to my personal definition of "science," it and belief in the supernatural are completely incompatible. Believing in the super natural would mean keeping a closed mind to certain scientific possibilities. Science means keeping a closed mind to all non-scientific possibilities. But science is much more practical, so I prefer science and ignore the supernatural.

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(By the way, it's all in your head.)

to_hobbes

I don't want to trivialize your experience, I just to throw in my own two cents on this.

I think scientific skepticism is the most important ability humans possess and if anyone can call themselves a scientist, it is a scientist's obligation and duty to demand a rational explanation for anything we witness. If I saw with my own two eyes Jesus walking on water, I would demand he do it again so I could figure out how. If he refused, I would demand to know how he did it, and as a scientist I must question how he did it. As a scientist, I must not accept that it was a miracle to be a valid answer. A scientist never accepts supernatural explanations -- we have a moral obligation to use our "God-given gift" of figuring out how the universe works, for the benefit of all mankind.

Thus I would have to say that the psychic probably had initially obtained a lot more information about your friend than he/she let you know. But if would like a way to talk to your departed friend, I unfortunately can't help. So it would be rude of me to tell you not to believe the psychic, and I'll just shut up now.

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(By the way, it's all in your head.)

greywolf90

exactly, so if something is "supernatural" either it does not exist, or it does exist and we simply do not yet have an explaination. if we consider something to be supernatural, that should not automatically mean it doesn't exist, because it may be possible to give it a perfectly natural explaination.

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"for there is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so."- Hamlet

nakamichi680zx

So where does Qi fall into?

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GrassHoppah: The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences.

to_hobbes

Ah, Qi, (or in Japanese "ki"): 気

Qi is a old theory that has since been replaced by more modern theories. Kind of like how Einsteinian physics replaced Newtonian physics. But, like Newtonian physics, is still a valid and practical theory (well, not everyone thinks its valid).

It used to be a good theory back when humans didn't have very good scientific models to describe their world. Now we have better scientific models, but some people still practice the old methods, I suppose because they are tried and true and can still solve simpler medical problems.

I guess some people still believe in it religiously, like when practicing tai-chi or fung-shui. But that's a religion, not science. Personally, I feel that belief in Qi is more fun than belief in Jesus or God.

I like how the Japanese still talk about it in Anime and video games, like in Dragonball or StreetFighter, and a myriad of others, where the characters focus their "energy" (their Qi) to increase their strength or to throw a special, highly energetic punch (sho-ryu-ken!!! or kame-hame-haaa!!!)

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(By the way, it's all in your head.)