marmalade

Disqualified from what? From a life of joy and pleasure? From the gene pool?

AB517

Depends on how you gain Happiness.

If it is self serving in a selfish way it is not a good thing.
Hitler was a happy fellow in the height of his power.

Surely you should have known

But since it is the G-girl I take it in a good way and agree.

AB517

I understand I think.

You value all human experience, good, bad, or indifferent. Humanity.

If no one occupies the space (here the experience), it does not exist to us.
Again Marm you made me think outside of myself … good show … I think

NotConvinced

Oh did I mention this was a contest? The best answer in the thread will earn you 5 whole dollars!

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<insert meaning of life here>

ChaoticMaster

[quote=marmalade;24024]I think you have taken the wrong side of the coin, If I can't have what I want then I learn to be happy with what i have. I find it is the best way to go through life.

In answer to the question I would say happiness. I say this because in general people value the things that make them happy and so if I vaule my happiness the most all the smaller things are included within my answer.

marmalade

Big deal! Everyone wants to be happy...

...but I'm unique. I'm miserable and proud of it.

Besides, if you shoot low enough, you'll never be disappointed.

marmalade

I value reality whatever that happens to be. I'm a very present-oriented person. When I'm depressed, I go all the way.

Its a practical attitude. I've tried to make myself happy when depressed, but when I'm depressed thats just the way it is and trying to force change can even make me more depressed. I've never been into torturing myself with pointless struggle. Take life as it comes the 'seeming' good and bad.

To translate it into theistic terms, I accept what God offers me.
To translate it into agnostic terms, I neither believe nor disbelieve in happiness.

AB517

I could write a book on how true this is.

Theory without experience is hallow
Experience with out theory is misunderstanding (Need something better here, but 3am and feeding a baby so can’t think … please help).

Zen has asked “what is the sound of one hand clapping”. Separate theory from experience you will have your answer.

marmalade

I'm assuming you meant that theory without experience is 'shallow' and not 'hallow'.

I'd say that theory without experience is disconnected from reality... whether that experience is subjective perception or scientific observation. I try to keep my theories close to my experience because a theory can be self-consistent and rationally coherent, and still be a load of sh*t. As I'm not a scientist or overly scientifically knowledgeable, the experience I tend to depend on is of the subjective perception variety.

In the case of depression, I have much experience and as such it forms much of my personal reality. I value depression for several reasons. It keeps me grounded, it keeps me focused on the essential, it keeps me present-oriented, and it keeps me honest with myself. Depression has taught me how to look deeply into things. I've spent many an hour observing the mechanisms of my mind which eventually led me to practice meditation. If you're feeling apathetic outwardly, then find an inward hobby.

You say experience without theory is misunderstanding, but you weren't quite sure about it. I'm not sure about it either. I often get stuck in my experience and in those moments theory can seem not to apply. I do, however, use my analytical mind to try to pull myself out of it in an attempt at counter-balance. Considering possibilities and perspectives of thought can break me free from apathy because it activates my imagination. Looking to what 'might be' redirects my mind out of what 'is' in the moment. I want to understand the world, I want to understand my experiences... no matter how impossible it may seem.

One time, I fell into a profound state where no thought seemed to apply. I was sort of depressed, but not really. I had been meditating intensively and I had brought my mind to a complete standstill which is impressive considering how obsessive my thinking can be at times. I don't know if it was an unhealthy state of mind, but there were some elements of anhedonia and depersonalization to it. It felt like an emotionally genuine way of being in the world, but it also felt like a difficult way to be in the world. I could feel deeply, but didn't feel drawn to do anything in particular. I could relate to people in a very personal way, but I felt no desire for conversation. So, I took many long walks by myself.

Maybe experience without theory is without practical application. There is a reason that people who have done intensive experiential practices such as meditation have traditionally entered monasteries. Its hard to live a normal life while in such states of mind and vice versa. Its only when you've come to terms with your personal experience, come to understand it, that you can find a way to live it. In Eastern traditions, there is the idea of returning to the world, coming down from the mountain. No matter how difficult it is, there is a significance to trying to explain what you have found to be true. Its not about convincing others, but rather about convincing yourself that what you experienced was meaningful.

I have no idea if that is what you were talking about, but thinks for the opportunity to pontificate.

Geshtinnanna

Don't value depression marmalade. It steals your very life. I've suffered from it all my life. And in those glimpses of time when my depression sleeps...the world is worth everything to live for. Sounds more like you have yet to find a way to break free of your cell of depression. Our coping mechanism is to simply say we like it in this cell of ours. But we don't. And saying otherwise is painful. A lot of depressed people fear losing their depression. They don't know who they would be without it. I feared the same. And after all of it, I found myself still here. Still me. Don't let depression define who you are. Fight against it.

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