An agnostic reason to bea vegetarian. - Page 3

Ice_Monkey · 06-29-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinterland

As an atheist I used to believe this was purely an atheistic reason to be a vegetarian, but later I realised it is true both atheism and theism (typically Deist folk who tend to not make as many illogical claims as other theists). Since it deals with knowledge of God and reality I think agnostic is the most apt term because it is encompasses theism and atheism.

The purpose is to discuss with other agnostic vegetarians their reasons for being vegetarian.

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My reason

The agnostic tends to not discern evidence that justifies belief inan all powerful entity that gives objective meaning and morals to humans and should not assume that humans are objectively better or more worthy than animals. This agnostic realises that a dog or cow eating and farting is equally a great an 'acheivement' as Beethoven's 9th and than any value placed in any entity is subjective inas much as they know. Because of this, some atheists and theists place their personal value in human and other animal life, but try to make them as equal as possible.

Because of my natural bias, I always place greater value in those closest to me and that includes animals.

The initial reason that made me a vegetarian was simply because I hate to see suffering or to know somethign has suffered because of me, directly or indirectly. Unfortunately I still drink milk, I just love a tall cold glass of fresh milk squeezed from a large unnattractive mammal. Milkshakes are the best, chocolate milkshakes, strawberry milkshakes, strawberry chocolate milkshakes...mmm.

popcorn, strawberries, etc.. are great if you don't mind eating the seeds and ovaries of another species.

The production of commercial crops also usually comes at the expense of animals via the hijacking of their habitat.

Ice_Monkey · 07-04-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ice_Monkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinterland

As an atheist I used to believe this was purely an atheistic reason to be a vegetarian, but later I realised it is true both atheism and theism (typically Deist folk who tend to not make as many illogical claims as other theists). Since it deals with knowledge of God and reality I think agnostic is the most apt term because it is encompasses theism and atheism.

The purpose is to discuss with other agnostic vegetarians their reasons for being vegetarian.

---------
My reason

The agnostic tends to not discern evidence that justifies belief inan all powerful entity that gives objective meaning and morals to humans and should not assume that humans are objectively better or more worthy than animals. This agnostic realises that a dog or cow eating and farting is equally a great an 'acheivement' as Beethoven's 9th and than any value placed in any entity is subjective inas much as they know. Because of this, some atheists and theists place their personal value in human and other animal life, but try to make them as equal as possible.

Because of my natural bias, I always place greater value in those closest to me and that includes animals.

The initial reason that made me a vegetarian was simply because I hate to see suffering or to know somethign has suffered because of me, directly or indirectly. Unfortunately I still drink milk, I just love a tall cold glass of fresh milk squeezed from a large unnattractive mammal. Milkshakes are the best, chocolate milkshakes, strawberry milkshakes, strawberry chocolate milkshakes...mmm.

popcorn, strawberries, etc.. are great if you don't mind eating the seeds and ovaries of another species.

The production of commercial crops also usually comes at the expense of animals via the hijacking of their habitat.

danarch · 07-06-2008, 02:23 AM

humans are omnivorous. it helps us adapt more quickly. so you don't wanna eat flesh...so what. theres nothing atheistic or agnostic about it. so you dont want to contribute to animals suffering...TOO LATE.

Quote:

The production of commercial crops also usually comes at the expense of animals via the hijacking of their habitat.

It doesnt stop there. global warming is causing polar bears to lose their habitat, everytime you drive to work a polar bear starves to death!!

do you think all that wood in your home is farmed...

just being alive is causing harm to animals. do you have anything that is leather? do u know drinking milk contributes to veal production? those poor cows are alway pregnant, to produce calfs so they will milk to be vacuumed out of them. what was in place where your home is? how many animals died so your house, neighborhood, city could be built? maybe if you killed yourself you could save an animals life.
needless animal suffering is uncalled for. but as our species expands, all others will diminish.

BrotherBrian · 07-10-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinterland

Quote:

Originally Posted by greywolf90

the way i see it, animals eat us, so what's bad about eating animals?
and last time i checked, milking is a natural process for mammals.

Other animals are not known to be able to make the conscious decision to eat alternatives to meat. A lion killing a human or other animal is justified because it requires it to nourish itself whereas many humans can sustain a very healthy diet without meat.

My problem with milking is that cows are almost always forced to be give birth to calfs so that they continue to produce milk. This is not healthy for them and this is why I want to stop consuming dairy priducts soon.

Yes, but shouldn't those cows and their male counterparts be free to express themselves sexually whenever they want to, which results in pregnancy which results in milk production?

How is such a natural process deemed "bad for them"?

BrotherBrian · 07-10-2008, 01:18 PM

Specifically what emotions do animals feel, and do they feel them as we do, do you think?

Redeemer · 07-30-2008, 01:51 PM

Following that logic, one could say that vegetarians believe they are above plant life. All experience and knowledge is purely subjective. For all we know, plants may be sentient on a level we cannot perceive. The survival instinct of sentient beings is the core remnant of our primitive cruelty and evil. Insofar as survival instinct is concerned, the need to sustain ourselves outweighs our respect for life of any kind.

precious one · 07-30-2008, 02:08 PM

Perhaps the real problem is, that individuals do not comprehend the true purpose of each person, place, and thing. They choose to worship that which should be devoured and eaten, and abuse that which should be cherished, honored and sustained.

JeffinKY59 · 07-30-2008, 06:21 PM

When a farmer builds a fence and hires a vet, he protects his animals from predators and diseases. Most farm animals are killed quickly, either a steel rod into the brain or their throat is cut so they bleed to death while still in shock. I broke two bones in my leg and was in shock, and did not feel any pain for about the first 15 minutes, then it hurt like hell. I also almost drowned another time- it was mental torture for the first minute, then a dreamlike calm state until someone pulled me out of the water.

An animal in the wild can be wounded or diseased and in severe pain for many days. A farmer usually puts an animal in severe pain out of their misery by mercy killing, and for humans we use morphine and other drugs for extreme pain.

We are made to eat both plants and animals, and food choice is mostly a personal preference to me, unless a religious group has a rule against pork or whatever.

Some people believe pork is banned by some because of a parasite the uncooked meat can have, or because it tastes the most like human flesh and helped promote cannibalism thousands of years ago. A memorable older movie is Soylent Green with Charlton Heston- it was a mystery what people were eating and why the government promoted suicide.

MissyMae · 08-02-2008, 12:45 AM

I am thisclose to getting a degree in nutrition and so here is my take in the matter:

Meat grass fed and organically grown is very healthy for humans, and very humane for the animals. One thing people don't really see is that animals have a different level of intelligence (each animal is different in this as some are more intelligent then others, just like people) and place where they belong in this world. Kind of fits into the cycle of life thing. For example, the goal of a cows life is: Be born, be healthy, eat and reproduce. If a cow reaches these goals, they have had a pretty successful life. Animals also don't feel emotions on the same scope that we do (even human babies do not feel emotions in the same scope adult humans do.) Cows graze ALL day long because they don't eat meat. Lions on the other hand do eat meat and so they are able to do what ever the heck they want to for days with out eating because they have gotten all the nutrition they need. We are omnivore and so we need both. We evolved to eat meat. In fact if we didn't at one point of time have to stop eating so many veggies (for what ever reason) and change to meat, we would have smaller brains and not be able to feel all these emotions that we are capable of feeling. History shows that humans did not evolve to have the brain compactiy that we do until it was proven that we started eating meat. So now our bodies love meat (healty organic grass fed meat, wild fish, and free range organic chickens for example) Grass fed cows are not only healthy for us, but for the environment as well. Here is why... A grain fed cow (even organic) needs it's grains (mainly corn) shipped and processed from somewhere else. Growing that corn (and most of the veggies from the store for that matter) takes a lot of energy. It also causes more digestive problems for the cows (cause cows were not really made to eat corn) and so there you get the gassy issues. Eating meat like this will also cause us some digestive tract discomfort (there you get some more "farts" for the environment.) But cows that are allowed to graze have less fat on them because they are walking around all day, are happier for the freedom (and being able to eat something they enjoy), and produce meat lower in fat, higher in omega 3's (didn't know cow meat could have omega threes I bet!), and higher in amino acids (which are the building block of the cells our bodies are made of.) I don't think that cows (or any animal) who are killed quick and humanely are suffering. They do not know death is coming and do not fear it like we do. We were taught to fear death (even babies don't fear it), or else it wouldn't be a big deal to us. Oh and another environment plus: They don't have much "gas" and they are not using the grains which cut down on pollution. Unfortunately meat that is grass fed and organic is pretty expensive compared to the other, and hard to find in your everyday groc. store. My uncle and cousins don't eat meat and my cousin is now over weight and my uncle is now very underweight. They eat only things that are organic and tons of beans and other forms of protein. But they are not healthy. So I think it is hard (if not impossible) for the bodies we have evolved into to not eat a source of "healthy" animal protein.

Check out this book if you have any questions about this subject and what I am saying, it is quite interesting:

The Compassionate Carnivore: Or, How to Keep Animals Happy, Save Old MacDonald's Farm, Reduce Your Hoofprint, and Still Eat Meat

Needle · 08-02-2008, 07:57 AM

First you defend your loving, intelligent Mother, then you decide to become friends of the enemy. They have sucked you in to their soap opera. Now you are one of their phantom characters. What have I taught you? Addict!

P.S. Yes, I broke through your parental block. No....don't beat me mommy! I will be good......