Katnip89

If I haven't introduced myself fully yet. My Name Is Danny Toothaker and I'm in the US Airforce. I'm very proud of who I am, and what I believe in. My Mother's side of the family is staunch Catholic........ >< and I am the "black sheep". I'm not even bothered by the fact that they don't like me, because that is their own choice. But my question of the night is: What in the hell could I/ Should I do/say to them to inform them that being an Agnostic is a healthy way of living?


Some more background info : My Mom's side is pure Irish... and they are all bullheaded.... so i'm basically in a pickle.

Any replys would be great, thanks guys

__________________
"People laugh at me for being different, and I laugh at everyone because they're all the same." - Anon

The guilt of man shall be his downfall, and Honesty shall right his wrongs - Me, Myself, and I

If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you'll be amazed at the results.
George S. Patton

romansh

Hi Katnip .... welcome

I think you are the closest of the current posters to me.
Live two and a half hours (well two with your avatar) north of you.
all the best

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Astral

Let me start by saying thanks for helping to protect the USA!

You are in a pickle. Once which can not be helped in single post or even a big series of them for that matter. There is NOTHING you can say to inform them that being agnostic is a healthy way of living. Remember that they are religious and you are now telling them that they are wrong by saying that being agnostic is healthy. If you wish to remain an agnostic then you will simply have to tell them to deal with it and all that comes with that decision.

If it is the Catholic Faith that you specifically take an issue with then tell them that! You need to read the bible and point out to them what you take issue with and why. Perhaps you can establish some understandable dialog where they may be more willing to entertain why you have issues when they can't come up with reasonable explanations.

In prophecy 5 of the 7 Churches are foretold to be destroyed... from the looks of it, most so called Christians don't have it right anyways. Especially Catholics, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.

This is a subject where you will have to grab a pair of waist high boots and shovel to get around in the crap.

WilliamBlue

I have found that when dealing with religious kin that you are better off avoiding this confrontation, pick the battles you can win. If they insist on calling you out then you should just tell them that you have your on belief system (read religion)and leave it at that. I do not believe that it would be worth pissin-off all those that may care for you just to prove a point, after all, what would you gain and what would you loose?

And Thanks For Serving!
Bill

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When you dance with an elephant it's up to you to not get stepped on.
How can we be so arrogant and egotistical to believe that the whole Universe was created just for us?

romansh

my two bits for what it is worth

be honest to yourself and to your family
be kind
be gentle
recognize the good* bits of other people's beliefs

I suspect many of your core beliefs are in alignment with family's beliefs
I personally would not put those (waist high) boots.
You'll be falling in to the same trap that Astral is in.

You know your family better than us...... go with you gut feel.
hope this helps


*the bits that make sense for you

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

Katnip89

First off, Thanks alot for the indepth reply. It means alot . I would try to point some errors, or at least suspicious material out of the bible but they always just yell at me and say "shut up, you never did what you're told". And I didn't ever do what I was told because I am not a sheep, and I refuse to be hearded for the slaughter.

__________________
"People laugh at me for being different, and I laugh at everyone because they're all the same." - Anon

The guilt of man shall be his downfall, and Honesty shall right his wrongs - Me, Myself, and I

If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you'll be amazed at the results.
George S. Patton

Katnip89

Oh I value your opinion Romansh, thanks I'll try and If they don't like it, its their problem . Change can only happen if both parties put forth the full effort to do so.

__________________
"People laugh at me for being different, and I laugh at everyone because they're all the same." - Anon

The guilt of man shall be his downfall, and Honesty shall right his wrongs - Me, Myself, and I

If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you'll be amazed at the results.
George S. Patton

to_hobbes

Unfortunately, you'll never convince your family of anything. But if you'd like, I can give you some "argument ammo" you can use if you end up in a confrontation. (Only use these arguments in self defense :-)

If your family thinks being agnostic means you will loose all sense of ethics and become some kind of criminal, you just need to say that that religious people do evil in the name of god all the time. Christians are no exception (from the crusades, to American civil rights movement). So if people who believe in god do evil things, then being a good person has nothing to do with being religious.

They usually respond with "yeah, but the religious people who do evil things didn't *truly* believe in god." Then just ask them, so how do you know the difference between "truly" believing and not truly believing? What is right? The answer comes from an intellectual study of ethics, not from God.

If they don't like that answer, you could also mention that the American legal system also relies not on god but on intellectual study of ethics. That is the whole purpose of our legal system -- determine what is right by having both sides present evidence and let a jury decide, with a judge to moderate and render a verdict. It has nothing to do with a judge looking at a bible and deciding if something is right or wrong based on bible verses. Sure, they have the bible to swear in people, but that has to do with tradition, and it has nothing to do with how decisions are made.

That might prompt a debate over whether or not our government a government of god, but that has nothing to do with how people decide what is right or wrong.

If they are concerned that you are going to hell, just remind them that even if they believe you are going to hell, they only believe it because of their religion. There are plenty of people (atheists and agnostics) who don't believe you are going to hell. So how do you know if mom and dad are right and the atheists are wrong? The only counter argument to this (that I can think of) is that they would insist you screwed up to believe atheists over your own family. To that you could say that you of course trust your family, it's just that you don't trust religion.

I hope that helps.

Katnip89

It does, I think I've come to the conclusion that I don't really care what they think anymore. . . they can be closed minded and dumb (in my opinion). Because that is their lives, and I'm living my own. All I'd really like is for them to let me be. Thanks for the help though, it was alot easier talking to them about it.

__________________
"People laugh at me for being different, and I laugh at everyone because they're all the same." - Anon

The guilt of man shall be his downfall, and Honesty shall right his wrongs - Me, Myself, and I

If you tell people where to go, but not how to get there, you'll be amazed at the results.
George S. Patton

2shotsoflife

well thats a good thing to know. and if thats your view then realize that arguing just causes people to get mad and argue back. so if you want to co exist the easest thing to do would try not to bring it up and if it does come up just say what you belive and don't bicker back and forth. makes life easier

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I once wanted to become an atheist, but I gave up - they have no holidays. -Henny Youngman