marmalade

I've been vaguely curious about astrology over the years, but not enough to study it much. Mostly, my interest has solely been in relation to archetypal interpretations of it.

Astrology didn't really catch my attention until I came across Tarnas' book 'Cosmos and Psyche' which looks at history in terms of astrological cycles. I've only read parts of this book, but plan to finish it sometime.

Then, I just discovered Gerry Goddard's on-line text 'Transpersonal Theory & and Astrological Mandala: An Evolutionary Model'. He references Tarnas' work plus much else.

So, I'm now even more intrigued about astrology.

Here is a thread about Tarnas' book where I brought up Goddard:
http://kaleidoscope-forum.org/talk/i...p?topic=1854.0

If you go to that thread, you'll find some other links related to these two authors. Also, Goddard's entire text can be found for free on-line.

This version of astrology isn't about personality nor prediction. Its about a framework of archetypes in which to more clearly see cyclical patterns of development. What do you think of this larger view of astrology?

Skepticologist

Seems to me that biorhythms have a more solid scientific footing.

__________________
"I am an agnostic; I do not pretend to know what many ignorant men are sure of."

Clarence Darrow

marmalade

You're probably right. I'm curious about biorhythms also.

I'm reading Goddard right now, but I'm only beginning to grasp his perspective. And I've found his ideas to have much psychological insight. My guess is that Goddard or Tarnas wouldn't disagree with you. However, in Goddard's case, he is making correlations with some theories that have been scientifically researched even if the correlations themselves haven't been scientifically researched.

I'll post some comments about Goddard's theory as I get further into his text.

to_hobbes

This is kind of hard to believe, but I can kind of understand what he is getting at.

I see a few possibilities. Maybe humanity is on a cycle that runs as precisely as clockwork, and the movements of the planets are a good way of measuring those cycles, much like a clock is designed to approximate the rotation of the earth. Maybe these human cycles exist and happen to run a cycles similar to those exhibited by those of the planets just because we are born of this universe. I am reminded of that book "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" where the earth and humanity turns out to be just a big computer used by aliens to compute the universal field theory. And this goes along with along with my understanding that humans are biological computers.

Another possibility is that the universe has total control over us and we have no free will. I made an extensive argument in favor of free will in this thread, but my argument assumes that free will is defined as a human thought process which is ultimately inescapable and is pre-defined by the cyclic path on which it is running. I once heard a theory that the universe is a large, constant, high-dimensional, space-time fractal that is self-similar everywhere. I like this theory, but even if it were true, it doesn't say much about how we can better ourselves as human beings because we still need to decide intellectually the difference between right and wrong.

But this guy is talking about the universe being an intelligent being much greater than ourselves which responds favorably to people who think good thoughts about it. Sure, this is possible. But I think ultimately, this is something that can't be determined by Scientific study and therefore, not much more than a question of faith. All we can do is look at the planets as a clock and see if the clock can tell what time it is, like according to the planetary alignment, our data indicates that it is "likely there will be a war" or "likely that a the majority of humans will feel a sense of peace". And you can't get much more in-depth than that without making a bunch of faith-claims.

marmalade

I've been distracted from my reading of Goddard, but I'll get back to him soon.

I have two thoughts for the moment:

- Biorhythms are correlated to the cycles of the sun and moon. Supposedly, women who spend much time outside will have their menses align with the cycles of the moon. If our biological cycles are aligned with certain astrological cycles, then its not that far of a reach to consider our biology could be influencing other things such as our minds.

- One explanation of the relation between humans and the stars and planets is that its acausal.

Think about an ancient person who was observing the movement of objects. He sees an apple fall and then sees a meteor fall. He makes a connection of their being a common force at play whatever he calls it. He is aware that the meteor came from above and the stars and planets also move in the sky like the meteor only slower. He makes a second connection.

Maybe there is a single force that is controlling the movement of all these different things. As above, so below. Of course, he interprets this according to gods and spirits, but even so he has a basic understanding of gravity.

An error might arise in his thinking where he thinks what is above is controlling what is below... the gods are controlling the humans. This is a causal relationship between the two. However, the real explanation is acausal meaning not attributable to neither. Rather, the real cause is a principle called gravity which can only be observed through its effects on objects.

So, what is the astrological equivalent to gravity?