Why not kill yourself? - Page 3

duck · 10-22-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohn

You guys are extremely arrogant to tell others what they must do.
There is no reason to struggle if you don't want to.

First of all, the studies I have read show that very, very few people who attempt suicide actually intend for it to work. Instead, studies show that most want the attempt to be a call for help.

There is no arrogance in that. Every life is precious.

tohn · 10-22-2007, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Quote:

Originally Posted by tohn

You guys are extremely arrogant to tell others what they must do.
There is no reason to struggle if you don't want to.

First of all, the studies I have read show that very, very few people who attempt suicide actually intend for it to work. Instead, studies show that most want the attempt to be a call for help.

There is no arrogance in that. Every life is precious.

Your arrogance is in demanding that everyone live by your ideas of right and wrong.

Whether or not life is precious is a matter of opinion.

duck · 10-22-2007, 04:05 PM

Where on earth did I ever say anything about my rules and expectations? Lets do a little jumping to conclusions. The OP asked about suicide, I have some experience with it, gave my opinions, and now I have you calling me arrogant.

Aside from being rather caustic in your comments and replies, you might try, before I use argumentum ad hominem with you, what exactly your views on this are and why you feel that way?

tohn · 10-22-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Where on earth did I ever say anything about my rules and expectations? Lets do a little jumping to conclusions. The OP asked about suicide, I have some experience with it, gave my opinions, and now I have you calling me arrogant.

Aside from being rather caustic in your comments and replies, you might try, before I use argumentum ad hominem with you, what exactly your views on this are and why you feel that way?

You wrote: "you must fight for the strength to live through these times." Telling people what they MUST do, is pushing your rules and expectations on them.

If someone decides life isn't worth the effort, that is their business. What gives you or I the right to tell someone else that they MUST continue to suffer?

Feel free to use as many ad hominem arguments as you like. You have a Constitutional right to do so.

duck · 10-22-2007, 06:17 PM

Quote:

If someone decides life isn't worth the effort, that is their business. What gives you or I the right to tell someone else that they MUST continue to suffer?

In almost all circumstances, it is illegal. That is a decision that our society has made and is unwilling to repeal on a statutory basis. Two, on a personal level, I still feel that suicide is a selfish act. Three, nearly all death benefits are negated by the act of suicide, which leaves the family obligated to clean up and pay for the outcome.

So let me ask this, again, in different words: What is your motivation in this debate? Are you so cold hearted not to regret losing someone close to you? Are you so callous that you would say the same thing if a sibling chose that route? Would a parent living in a state that allows this type of end of life choice were to make that choice, you wouldn't be profoundly moved by it?

Thankfully, I am not that type of person.

tohn · 10-22-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duck

Quote:

If someone decides life isn't worth the effort, that is their business. What gives you or I the right to tell someone else that they MUST continue to suffer?

In almost all circumstances, it is illegal. That is a decision that our society has made and is unwilling to repeal on a statutory basis. Two, on a personal level, I still feel that suicide is a selfish act. Three, nearly all death benefits are negated by the act of suicide, which leaves the family obligated to clean up and pay for the outcome.

So let me ask this, again, in different words: What is your motivation in this debate? Are you so cold hearted not to regret losing someone close to you? Are you so callous that you would say the same thing if a sibling chose that route? Would a parent living in a state that allows this type of end of life choice were to make that choice, you wouldn't be profoundly moved by it?

Thankfully, I am not that type of person.

My motivation is respect for people to control their own lives. I'm sorry you chose to misinterprete that as callousness. Now who's jumping to conclusions?

As far as the law is concerned, I don't think the government is has any right to protect someone from themself. If you think that all laws should be blindly obeyed, then you have a slave mentality.

I don't care how many suicides and attempted suicides you knew, you are still speaking as an outsider. If you knew the depths of their pain and despair, you wouldn't be so quick to tell people what they MUST do.

Buddha · 10-22-2007, 10:56 PM

Not comitting suicide because of the affects on the family. What if there was no family, or the family never found out? I don't think that guilt trip would do much.

Mortalsfool · 10-22-2007, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddha

I want to know why it's so bad to kill yourself. Very few people ever make a difference, and everyone will be forgotten eventually. What does it matter if someone wants to off themselves when the world is overpopulated anyway.
Thanks in advance for any replies.

PS.I've had this thought since I was quite young(22 now)and no one can give me a real answer.

I think that the hardest thing about suicide is that the survivors are never prepared with an understanding before it happens.

I think if one of my friends told me beforehand why he felt like it, there might be a chance that I would agree with him; it could in fact the best solution.

The overriding guide for myself is twofold, "I know that it's a permanent solution for a temporary problem," and the fact, that I haven't developed enough confidence in my limited knowledge concerning possibilities of an afterlife. At least not sure enough to assume that I'm not making a mistake.

Cashing in our token before it's expired seems like a waste of value.

I think that until the day comes when I have physical pain that is more than the pain of a potential mistake, I won’t even consider it.

Buddha · 10-22-2007, 11:01 PM

What if the person was a hermit and had not seen anyone in twenty years and was never going to affect anthing. Why is it bad if they off themselvs?

duck · 10-22-2007, 11:15 PM

This is the only thing I care to add to this discussion:

Quote:

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;
To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life;
For who would bear the whips and scorns of time,
The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,
The pangs of despised love, the law's delay,
The insolence of office and the spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his quietus make
With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscover'd country from whose bourn
No traveller returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pith and moment
With this regard their currents turn awry,
And lose the name of action. - Soft you now!
The fair Ophelia! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all my sins remember'd.

William Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act III, scene i