Sa\/en

Nope, but to someone else, it could be pictured as right. He/she might believe that humans are having and adverse effect on the planet, because of global warming, habitat destruction etc, etc. Therefore, to eliminate people would eliminate carbon-emissions. Someone might picture life as a whole as useless and decide to take the world out with him. You can plead all you want, he just has to say, “I don’t care if you die.’ So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

By the way, your response shows a lack of understanding of what I have said.

Exactly, now apply that reasoning with your opinion that humans are important. The truth has nothing to do with it. The truth sits by itself, what you do with it is up to you. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.


You’re evil! Why not kill 100 people and save 300 cows, huh, buddy? Because it is your opinion that humans are more important than cows. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

Oh no, fish are gods chosen creatures! So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

Nope, humans can starve, save the fish! You fish murdering evil bastard! So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

Oh, your own agenda has everything to do with it! Fish are important, humans are carbon-pumping disease infested rats. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

Sorry, I believe that killing cattle is immoral, go kill yourself you cattle eating Satanist! So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

Please, quote the arguments you are talking about, they don’t seem to exist anywhere. And sorry, all your arguments have been refuted, you just assume you have a point by boring the hell out of your enemy. Oh, you have answered none, that is why I am still arguing

__________________
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious--Brendan Gill

Life is simple, people make it complicated.

Sa\/en

Morality exists because animals that did not follow certain moral codes would die. Morality is an evolutionary advantage, it ensures the survival of the group. A male swan will rape a female swan. The ‘immoral’ act of rape helps the swans in furthering their species. Birds born without wings would die. Humans that reject society’s moral codes will be murdered or sent to prison.

Do you think a female spider thinks, “Oh, I must not eat my mate, it is so immoral!”
Hell no, she F***ing rips his legs off and eats his head.

Why?

Because eating here mate helps her feed her babies. Morality does not exist here because it is not needed. Morality is fluid, it is not real! The spider is not evil, its just following its instincts, wake up! The universe does not obey a set law of morality, wake up!

Yes, that is your opinion and your opinion I will respect. But do not state this S**T as if it is how the universe works, come on, educate yourself! You believe that, others don’t.

Your intellect does not give you universal importance, you create your own importance. And if you’re arguing that humans are having a positive effect on the planet, go educate yourself because that is another discussion in itself, and it is awfully one-sided. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

That’s if you see preserving life as important, some people don’t. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

And some people will agree with that and decide to eliminate people because they want to see more land for animals. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

Yes, and some people believe that eliminating humans will bring the most happiness to the planet. Humans are not even making the minority when it comes to the life on this planet. Some believe that animal’s needs should come before humans and that humans are carbon-pumping disease infested rats. Is the importance of a creature decided on its mass, size, brain size, population or genetic makeup? This all boils down to what is important, which in itself is an opinion. Most humans are bias towards their own species anyway. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

Will swans still be raping? Yeah, screw swans, those evil raping birds! When are you going to wake up? So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.


Who says he is brainwashed? Some have a full understanding of what they are doing when they are being racist. He is trying to bring the greatest good to his own group. Some people hate blacks and Jews or Americans. Everyone has their own little group and they fight for that group.

And that was his opinion. Hitler believed that it would bring the greater good to the Nazis. It depends on where the boundaries of your group end. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

Yes, it was his opinion, Hitler consciously decided to reject other groups from his group. It was his opinion, and he was then killed for it. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

Yes, and Hitler believed that killing millions of people would bring happiness to those in his group. Hitler can picture one Nazi as having more importance than 10000 Jews, it an opinion, his opinion. Just as you don’t believe that a colony of ants has the same value as a City of humans. It is an opinion, your opinion. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

When I talk about truth, I’m referring to empirical evidence and logic. Such as Hitler lived in Germany and 1 + 1 = 2.

I do not see any logic whatsoever in your text. Actually, there is no logic in your text. Come to think about it, you have not posted any facts. You have refuted nothing, while I have shown that your argument are nothing but opinions with the famous saying, “So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.”

I have, and there is nothing there

Oh and before you think you can get away, where is the evidence that suicide is illogical?

__________________
Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious--Brendan Gill

Life is simple, people make it complicated.

romansh

please ..... it's not worth the effort or the logic .......

__________________
There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams

niranjan

But indeed , u deemed his actions as just, and that is where I have a problem.

Why kill people, in order to reduce global warming. Why not look for an alternative solution !!!!!




And how did you get to the truth yourself , in order to refute the 'fact ' or my 'opinion' that humans are important.

And as I said before, we have to understand the situation through discrimination, arrive at the truth, which brings the greater good, and then put into action.

The truth indeed has everything to do with it.



Well, I have given my grounds on why people are important , both on eastern philosophy and western. You have not refuted that reasoning.



Refute what I have said, pal. Then say that it boils down to opinion, and not fact.




Again refute what I have said, pal. Then say that it boils down to opinion, and not fact.



And what indeed is my own agenda!!!!!!!!!

Refute what I have said, then point out that this is an opinion and not a fact.


Refute what I have said, then point out that this is an opinion and not a fact.



Here you go ...

There are indeed logical reasons not to kill oneself.


For one , you are committing murder on yourself ( leaving the physical illness part out of this which is involuntary ). And a murder is a murder whether it is yourself or others.

Secondly , you are bringing to waste all the tremondous power and divinity that is within you from being manifested, which could go a long way in promoting truth, justice , culture ,goodness and beauty in this world. It can also bring happiness , peace and bliss to you in the long run.

Thirdly, you are bringing great pain and suffering to your friends and family. That is sheer selfishness .

Fourthly, you are promoting yourself as a negative role model to society, and others who know you, in their weaker moments, might feel tempted to follow your example and choose the easier path of killing themselves instead of battling it out and emerging triumphant along with being positive role models for society.

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

niranjan

And where has your exposition on morality contradicted mine."Morality is in existence , because it plays an important role in ensuring the greatest good and the least evil, which for the animal can be survival of itself and its loved ones and its happiness. "

All the cases, you have denoted above is related to the survival of the species, which I myself have stated.




Dude, I have indeed emphasised this as OUR PERCEPTION, and did not establish it as a fact. It has indeed not been proved wrong as well by anyone.




Again, I emphasised 'USING ONES INTELLECT WITH DISCRIMINATION ',so as to make a positive impact and influence on the world ecosystem, instead of making a negative one.

It is mans selfishness and greed , and the using of his intellect for achieving that goal, that is leading to the disruption of the natural harmony in the world. And I don't think this is using the INTELLECT WITH DISCRIMINATION.

It is rather greed and utter materialism and selfishness.

As Mahatma Gandhi himself said, " Earth has enough to satisfy everyone's need, but not everyones greed."





And why the need to eleminate people, why just focus on family planning and population control, so as to reduce population, instead of killing people.

You can see by discrimination or reasoning, that this brings the greater good and lesser evil.



Well, I take the whole as not just the human race, but also the world ecosystem, and that which brings the greater good to it , should be undertaken and put into action.

Indeed everything in the world ecosystem is interdependent, and it has to be seen that the harmony is preserved and not disrupted, as it will have a negative effect on the rest as well.





Hmmm, so the Nazi soldier had a full understanding of what he was doing, when he was committing the Holocaust and the torture and slaughter of 6 million jews, handicapped, poles and other communities,establishing a totalitarian government and dictatorship in germany,destroying democratic institutions and pursuing a brutal war with the whole world for the goal of world domination!!!!!



I would be against his actions, as I believe that he is bringing greater evil not only to the world, but also his own people.




VASUDEIVA KUDUMBAKHAM --- THE WHOLE WORLD IS ONE FAMILY.(vedas)

Perhaps , if we take the whole world or world ecosystem as ones boundary end, and conduct actions on knowledge brought forth by discrimination, that would bring the greater good and the least evil.

And reasoning or discrimination is indeed the right course of thinking, on which brings the greater good ,and putting that knowledge into action.

There is every probability that if Stauffenberg had succeeded in his attempt, the lives of many innocent thousands could have been spared, including that of germans, and it would have spared germany from the deaths and destruction that preceded its ultimate capitulation.


He arrived at the truth of the matter, analysing the military situation, which was pretty bleak for germany, and found that it is only going to result in the deaths of many innocents and much greater destruction, before the final inevitable defeat, as Hitler was adamant in fighting on, without a true assessment of the military situation.

In order to avoid all the unnecessary bloodshed and suffering, he decided to eleminate Hitler, as he felt that it would bring greater good to the whole ( in his case his country ) and prevent the deaths of many innocent german soldiers and civilians.

And there was every chance that if he had succeeded, Germany, stripped of its leader, would have capitulated immediately, as it was already demoralised by a pretty much deteriorating military position. It was only Hitler who was adamant in fighting to the very end.

And this capitulation would have saved the lives of many innocent soldiers and civilians. Of course, it does not have to strictly have to happen this way but chances or the odds favour this reasoning very much.

I would say that Stauffenberg's reasoning is much closer to the fact, than to an opinion.

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

Katnip89

I've had many thoughts of that myself... and honestly. It is entirely up to you, but - I am a pretty optimistic person myself. I used to be really deep into drugs and I am a manic depressive. which is an absolutely terrible combination... but I managed to turn my life around and i'm in the airforce now. I have had two family members take their own lives, my aunt from my mothers side , and my uncle from my fathers side... and all it did was make my family believe it was their fault. So, my answer to your question would be: Your life may change in the same way mine did, and you could achieve all of your goals if you stick to them in life. But you'll never have the opportunity for change if you are dead.

niranjan

Sorry about what happened to your family, Katnip.

But indeed very well said, hero.

__________________
You yourself are your only friend. You yourself are your only enemy.

---Krishna ( Bhagavad Gita )


“You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe, deserve your love and affection.”

---Buddha


The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason.

---Thomas Paine

Sa\/en

Sorry, this still fails. If he chooses to kill himself, that is his choice. If he doesn't care about those around him, then yes, suicide would not be illogical because it would not conflict with his intent. If he does not want to hurt those around him, then suicide would violate his intent to not hurt them, then it would be illogical. But when someone kills himself, self pity outweighs his intent to help those around him. He does not care about those around him.

So yeah, where is the evidence that suicide is illogical?

It has already been refuted. You assume that a fish deserves to be killed for humans, someone else can take the opposite stance. Therefore your view is an opinion, fact. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

I do not refute the opinion that humans are important any more than I refute the opinion that fish are important. None of them are facts, they are subjective opinions. The truth I arrive at is that these things are subjective opinions, I do not take any side. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

And those are opinions, not facts. I cannot refute the opinion that humans are important anymore than I can refute the opinion that fish are important. It is a subjective opinion, and it cannot be refuted by the facts, because it is an opinion. But when you disguise your opinion as a fact, you are violating a fundamental law of logic. If you say that what you believe is an opinion, I can accept it, but when you call it a fact, you are lying. Just like when someone looks at a car, some will think it is beautiful, some will think it is ugly. There is no fact that it is beautiful, it is an opinion. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

And that is your opinion that humans are more important than fish. It is an opinion, not a fact. Just like when someone looks at a car, some will think it is beautiful, some will think it is ugly. There is no fact that it is beautiful, it is an opinion. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

You value your own life over the life of a fish, therefore it is an opinion. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact. So yeah, again, this boils down to opinion, not fact.

It has already been refuted, for reasons stated above.


And some people will reduce the population through mass extermination. It is his opinion, maybe he values ants over humans who knows? Its an opinion.

And humans are disrupting that harmony. Therefore, people say, “Lets wipe out the human race.”

That is your opinion. Just like you value a human life over 100 ants, Hitler valued a Nazi’s life over 1000 Jews. And this is Hitler’s opinion.

No, that has already been refuted above. You have your own opinion when it comes to the value of creatures. Do you judge the value of a creature on its size, brain size, weight, strength, its ability to run or its beauty?

Do beavers deserve more rights than mongooses?

Do 100 ants equal 6.3 cockroaches?

The greater good to who?

Your concepts are really, really immature and I think you’re just running away from the fact that you know you are wrong. It does not make much logic to refute what you are saying.

This has already been refuted above.

Yes, but Hitler wasn’t concerned with those people, it was his opinion. Again, this has already been refuted above.

Yes, but Hitler wasn’t concerned with those people, it was his opinion. Again, this has already been refuted above.

Yes, but Hitler wasn’t concerned with those people, it was his opinion. Again, this has already been refuted above.

Yes, but Hitler wasn’t concerned with those people, it was his opinion. Again, this has already been refuted above.

Yes, but Hitler wasn’t concerned with those people, it was his opinion. Again, this has already been refuted above.

To fulfill his own intent, yes. But Hitler’s intent was different. But Hitler wasn’t concerned with those people, it was his opinion. Again, this has already been refuted above.