Sa\/en

If you die from a heart attack in a marathon, it's not suicide... Even if the choice is warped, it still remains a choice.

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Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious--Brendan Gill

Life is simple, people make it complicated.

Geshtinnanna

What I am attempting to get into your brain is the fact that some of the reasons people commit suicide ( I said some) is because they have an ILLNESS. And that illness takes away your choice. It's an illness of the brain like heart attack is illness of the heart. Gloucoma is illness of the eye. It affects an organ in your body. It's not something you think your way out of. My point to the people here is that there is no difference. Please stop being so simple. It's not.

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Sa\/en

Read my post again.

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Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious--Brendan Gill

Life is simple, people make it complicated.

Lecter

If you are paralyzed you can't run in a marathon even if you just try to move your legs, they won't move.

For some people depression is an actual organic disease, they can't try and think their way out of it, they need medication just like you would need medication for your diseased liver. And sometimes that disease makes you do things that other people with a healthy mind wouldn't do.

Pretty much like if you have chronic liver disease your condition might complicate into liver failure and then suffer from hepatic encephalopathy. This is a condition people with a healthy liver won't get, it is also something that needs to be controlled with medication, they can't just choose to have a healthy liver.

So no, it's not a choice, not always anyways.

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I'm only laughing on the outside / My smile is just skin deep / If you could see inside I'm really crying / You might join me for a weep.

Geshtinnanna

No you go read mine. I'm tired of reading simpleton posts on a complicated issue.

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Sa\/en

If there is no choice in the matter, then it is not suicide. If it is exactly the same as heart disease, then it is not suicide. If the element of choice is not there, it is not suicide. If it is exactly the same as an organ malfunctioning, it is not suicide. If it is, having a heart attack can be called suicide. You could become more prone to having suicidal thoughts, yet that in itself remains a choice.


No you go read mine. Your point has already been adressed.

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Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious--Brendan Gill

Life is simple, people make it complicated.

Geshtinnanna

Suicide is a symptom of some illnesses. When it infects the organ of the brain it affects its thinking process. When someone who has a mental illness tries to commit suicide it's not an informed choice. and when we are in a space to think clearly we realize it wasn't a choice. The illness affects the brain and removes rational thought. We are in fact incapable of making a choice at that time.
As I get what you are saying I must add this.
The malfunctioning organ by the illness manifests itself in suicide.
I.E....healthy mind = healthy thoughts
sick mind= unhealthy thoughts. One being suicide.

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Sa\/en

Well, if your actions as a result of your disease are completely involuntary, it is not suicide. Then it is purely a physical disease, not suicide.

(sorry for all the editing)

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Not a shred of evidence exists in favor of the idea that life is serious--Brendan Gill

Life is simple, people make it complicated.

Geshtinnanna

I think that's as close as we are going to get to any sort of agreement. Though physical and mental are both disease of equal merit. It's the thinking otherwise that leads people to not understanding the illness. And without that understanding there is no help.

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romansh

Following from a distance you guys seem close
Just definitions and passion keeping you apart

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There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened. ........... Douglas Adams