jaej

The other day I was just perusing Wikipedia, clicking on whatever random link interested me at that moment (does anyone else do that?), and I stumbled on utilitarianism. Essentially, utilitarianism is a moral theory that states the option that provides the most good for the most people (the most utility) is the most moral and thus the best choice.

I was just wondering what people here use as their basis for morals and ethics. I was raised Christian, so when I was younger I formed my opinions around a Christian basis. I'm slowly changing those as I learn more about agnosticism and read more about philosophy, etc., but I was just wondering what you guys use as your moral base.

Here's the link, if anyone wants.
Utilitarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Og

I love doing that on wikipedia. GREAT stuff to be found.

I also posted on some stuff related to this idea over here:
http://www.agnosticforums.com/genera...-hedonist.html

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brig

Although like yourself Jaej I was raised in a Theistic environment, I would actually say it has had little impact on my 'moral compass' if you will. I have always placed great emphasis on traditional British values and societal norms, encompassing things such as courtesy,chivalry etc. 'Treat others how you wish to be treated yourself' , it's a simple concept (and an admittedly clichéd one at that), but one that makes me a better person I feel. I suppose though, that you need a foundation of knowing what is right and wrong, what is accepted and not, to begin with, which is where the previous things mentioned would come in.

I'm also a very considerate person by nature, and my decision making reflects this. I try to take the time to evaluate what consequences my actions my have on others, and whether it will put them out in any way, and am generally willing to sacrifice my own well being for others. But again, I wouldn't say I draw this from my Islamic background but rather from my own experiences in this world.

A slight aside, but Utilitarianism is comparable to an Artificial Intelligence heuristic, and the way in which AI can be made to make decisions.

The An-Jel

The ol': Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Treated works for me. Being herd and group creatures it seems the only thing that makes sense.

My Youth? No form of moral compass I had to study and figure out my own. My youth was basically: put on a good face, be a good and proper citizen but when it comes down to it... it is all done for the self and only the self. My reptillian dad liked to say: I Am Society. If society is my dad then I am very frightened for it. He might very well be.

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JerryAgent

I was raised in church, so the Bible and it's values are ingrained in me. My conscious takes after the Bible, and I can't do much about it. I augment it with logic and common-sense, because frankly, it is hard to debate using JUST the Bible as your stem of knowledge. Logic is simple, easily understood, and hard to refute.

I don't know about everyone else, but I follow my conscious when it comes to good and bad. Whenever I am about to commit something "bad" I always get that little nagging feeling that eventually turns into guilt. If I do something "good" then I get that feeling of accomplishment. Nobody taught me what was good or bad in every specific little situation, I simply learned the core vaules and applied that to the rest of my life.

I do not believe in the "treat others as you would like to be treated." If someone treats you badly, it gives you excuse to treat them badly. It invites revenge, spite, jealousy, maybe even slight narcissism. If somone wronged me, yes I would love to get back at them, and I do, but afterwards that nagging feeling in my concsious comes back after the sense of victory fades. Then my conscious takes over and I am guilty. I believe I should treat others kindly no matter how I am treated, I won't settle for lesser standards.

So there's my thoughts.

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The An-Jel

Your thinking of it as "eye for an eye". Everyone likes to be treated as an individual sovereign being with a right to life and the respect that is due in accordance with this respect to life. Societal mannerisms aside, when a person decides to treat someone in such a way that is less than what a sovereign being is entitled to they should be punished accordingly socially, punitively, and the like. "Eye for an eye" at least in my view is for those that can't see beyond themselves... find the individual these days that doesn't see beyond themselves and you will find a rare creature indeed! It's a little easier than finding the Questing Beast - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

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"And let there be Light!" said the Blind man.

Life is simple, people make it complicated - Basilisk

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti - Royal Gibraltar Regiment

pseudonous

The interesting thing about utilitarians is that, in thier attempt to devise a less dogmatic morality, they simply invented a new dogma.

pseudonous

Oh yeah, your question was about the basis of other peoples morals. I like to distinguish between morals and ethics. I think morals are just things preached by moralizers with personal agendas. Ethics, on the other hand, require the mutual agreement of everyone involved. I think of my self as ethical not moral, and I don't really have a fastly held ethical system.

milligal

I like your question. The philosophical slant of morality is all encompassing. It does not just surround what ONE person thinks but what the majority of a society thinks and why they live the way they do. I am a fan of Utilitarianism. When we run into moral dilemas as a society-is abortion right or wrong? what about gay marriage? You can fall back on the addage of what's good for the many outways the good of the few. Or more precisely another moral philosophy the Social Contract-we agree to respect one another for the sake of all.

When you see life from this perspective you realize-if no one can prove a five week old fetus is more alive than a plant than who is it hurting if that 'life' is terminated? Furthermore, whose business is it if a gay couple gets married (two consenting adults)? These moral philosophies force us to disect the meaning of our existence with others-a thing that organized religion has discouraged us from debating since it's inception. These philosophies encourage thought and self description, a long way from the religion of obedience we have been raised on as christians.

pseudonous

Don't you think falling back on "what's good for the many outways the good of the few" is just resulting to mob rule. After all, the majority can always argue that the gays while they would benfit from tax benifits as a legally recognized married couple are the minority. Therefore, the majority should not allow them to be married, as they would benifit by not giving gays tax benifits.

The hedonistic calculus has many flaws. The biggests one, in my opinion, is that you would have to know everything in order to choose a course of action. What are all the good and bad things that can result for everybody? Who knows? I think you can rationalize any position you want to within a utilitarian framework.

I just don't see how utilitarianism solves any of the old problems. I think we all agree that intolerance and the desire some people have to control others, whether just for the sake of control or because they believe they know better is the real problem. Am I wrong?