Grant

I'm about to get my Socrates on.

Statement: We all live our lives ultimately based off of our own desires.

Lets say Bob lives his life to serve others. Why? He likes to see people happy. It brings a good feeling to him. Ultimately, Bob is catering to his desire to make others happy.

Now lets say Jim is a follower of Jesus and lives his life to serve God. Why? Well, according to the Bible, thats the only reason we exist- to glorify God. Jim wants to justify his existance and we experience joy when we serve God. (wether He's real or not. Lets stay on topic).


And now for a Christian's perspective:

That being said, I don't see anything wrong with being self-serving. Its inevitable. We can do things knowing that they bring joy to God as well as us... and that brings us joy.

Now, it becomes HOW we serve oursleves that things are "evil". We'll go with a Biblical definition of "evil". I think God set us up where we can choose which "set" of desires to cater to. We can bring happiness to ourselves with lust, pride, tearing others down, things God said are evil, or we can bring joy to ourselves through bringing somebody to Christ, getting closer to God, helping others... all those good stuffs. We can serve ourselves in sinful ways or justified ways.

Just thinking about things...

-T-

__________________
Hey.

lemmex

The problem is we have given authority to others who are claimed experts or have special spiritual knowledge. The vast majoriry rely on other's to tell them what means what. If we could accept you're premise we would be better for it but it lack direction and substance. You have to understand the Biblical meaning of evil has and always will be disobeying God. Now as to how we're suppose to know this, I have no idea as God does not speak to me. But the turth is in all cultures, if you don't beleive in a set way, you are subject to reprisal or worse.

Thinks you do put your idea in a negative manner with the desire spin, though I agree with what you say. I would say man is a social creature and we're motivated naturally and interact with others. We do have a selfish gene called survival that's always in play. If anything there is a comfort zone we operate in. Could we use comfort zone in place of desire. We are simply motivated to..... act

It is not actions that are the cause, but reactions.

Grant

I agree.

The Bible pretty much lays it out for us... 10 commandments and all...

My point is that we can't do anything without self-serving motives... lets try not to get TOO off-topic.

-T-

__________________
Hey.

}SoC{Sumguy

Plato stated that true good is enlightened self-interest. What helps both you, and others. Thus is also the ideal capitalist.

__________________
"And now you've seen his face,
and you know that there's a place
in the sun, for all that you've done.
For you and your children.
You always wanted to beleive.
Just ask and you'll receive,
beyond your wildest dreams.
And you already know how this will end...."

lemmex

You’re right I wrote my post with an agenda and in a way lied. I didn’t want to be confrontational. So here goes.

I disagree with the simplicity of observation and comment. I'm sorry what I hear you saying is we are bad people who act selfishly. I could find no value in it. I’m not sure if you making an observation or provide a reason why. The attempt in using the desire angle that motivates us with the link about living in sinful or justified ways and feeling good about one’s self is too simplistic and meaningless. The idea about feeling good is considered below. Your comment is age old, maybe it’s time to try answering it and then we can change it. We're better then you think. Once you understand how we think then you solve your problem.

I have a personal belief which made me respond that may be different then yours, it's that man is basically good by nature and his nature is not evil. He can be good if he chooses to. If this is the case then why isn’t society good. Man will never have a perfect society or life, but we could be close if we choose to.

I do believe Man’s morals exceed God’s morals. We're a composite person believing what we do of ourselves because other people tell us who we are. Religion keeps us from being who we’re suppose to be. When our desire conflict with that and with what others tell us about ourselves there are going to be problems and then we get this crap of right and wrong. The human element is always there. If we’re to understand God we must first understand ourselves and how we think. In other words we have understand desire which we don’t. You’re concept right now is based on what others have told you it is that you have come to form.

Observations without meaning explain nothing. It tends to reinforce things as they stand that justify the status quo. Our idea of right and wrong are based solely on a norm so let’s not even talk about it. The simplest of fact is we live in a guilt-ridden society and religion and society is built on “you are bad”. This is the image we all hold of ourselves. You’re going to say no I don’t, but we do and we repress it and we are not free of it when we talk about this. The feeling good or desire seems to me to be a description of that. But fail to consider when we act and what we classify or justify is really not the issue.

To be motivated (desire) isn’t enough and isn’t an answer unless you don’t think about it or know why we act. All animals act and have desires, man’s desires apparently is something we apply morals to. We must understand why we act if we’re to understand this desire you speak of. My feeling is you don’t understand it. You make the point when you framed your idea form two perspectives and not your own. In a way you’re saying you don’t know.

Desire is neither good or bad. We can’t get around the desire you speak of because we’re inclined to act. We cannot not act therefore this in not what we should be talking about. I believe man can live in peace but there are reasons why man doesn’t. The difference is I think is it is within our control and we choose not to. We must look at, if man is a social animal why can’t he get along in a group setting. Man is a social creature and interaction is built into us. It’s purposeful and contributes to our survival. Just as in the animal world there is competition within our species. There is something more basic and common to us akin to Evolution. In a sense I see your reference to desire misapplied. We each have a uniquenesss and commonality to us that competes.

I hope I stayed within confines of my disagreement with you. I’ll put it on the line. No God is the answer, You are first answer, then they follow.