shadowind

who is the authority in morals?

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remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

shadowind

or what standard is the most usefull. There might be an absoulte truth, but we're seperated from it, we apear to be limited and held back by a reference point.

if we have a system or a standard to judge the "correctness" of something, 2+2 for example(which could be said to be an "instance" of the system) and the system judges 2+2=4 as correct, what means do we have to judge the correctness of the mathamatical system or class that defines the rules. we have other standards and systems, but that simply leads around in a circle. system/standard judgeing standard on into infinity.

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remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

GX

I am with shadowind on this one. Its easy to say 2+2=4 and not 5 because there is a system of physical absolutes to base it on. What do you base absolute morals on? God? If so, how did God communicate this to you? I can already point out a contradiction even before you answer:
1) Muslim societies claim that its Gods will to cut the hand off a thief
2) Christian societies claim that its Gods will to forgive the thief

Both claim absolute morality from God.
Go figure...

Conclusion: Morals are relative, subjective and ever changing not only from place to place but from generation to generation. Most importantly, morals are a human construct, not something handed down from God.

B-continum

There was nothing wrong with the proof for 'absolute truth'. However, the only absolute truths are to be found in mathematics. If you come back to the issue at hand, morality, you can't say that because morality is a human construct. The ideas of good and bad are subjective values that humans give to things and issues. Seeing as morality is based on what is good and what is bad, morality is also subjective.

And before the absolute truth bit is brought up again, answer this: what is truth? Is it good, bad or morally neutral?

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"If you want to make God laugh, tell him your future plans" - Woody Allen

"I have too much respect for the idea of God to make it responsible for such an absurd world." - Georges Duhamel

"What does an agnostic, dyslexic insomniac do? Stays up all night and wonders if there is a dog." -Unknown

dameedna

Actually, this is not technically true.

2 Raindrops + 2 Raindrops does not = 4 Rain-drops

It equals 1 raindrop!!!

As to their being absolutes, at this point wether there are or aren't I don't think we have them figured out yet.

But we still need to make decisions, so we have to create a moral and ethical code for society that we stand by, regardless of wether it's perfect. I think it is important to alway's be open to changing ones mind, if new information becomes available.

Beyond a set of Moral or Ethical Codes, I think it's important to devise a way of reaching a decision, a philispohical or ethical system that enables us to reach what we think is the best decision possible with what we know.

People desire certainty, which unfortunately no matter what people believe, I don't think we will ever have. Maybe less certainty and more thinking about our behaviour is the way to go

dameedna

Historically, it appears that the authority comes from those that "win the war" and wipe out those that don't agree.

Good thing heretics like myself can no longer be put to death or sent into exile.

shadowind

good thing indeed.

__________________
remember "for mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescirbe to oursleves is liberty"-rousseau: the concept of the general will "if we can not reconcile all opions, then let us endeavour to unite all hearts."-?"to be is to be perceived"-? "‘We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know’-Robert G. Ingersoll

NotConvinced

Excellent example, I'm definately gonna use that somewhere, thank you.

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<insert meaning of life here>

AB517

ahh that song is wrong.

it should be

"a rain drop keeps falling on my head ..."
"

dameedna

sigh..I'd love to take credit for clever things, but this isn't mine.

It was in a book I read, After athiesm, by Mark Vernon.